From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:51:05 +0200 Message-ID: <857ibayq3q.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87ej5oz4pb.fsf@saeurebad.de> <87vdyzxype.fsf@saeurebad.de> <871w1njq32.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87iquzxgtk.fsf@saeurebad.de> <4884CFEF.8040404@gmail.com> <48861A51.1090401@gmail.com> <20080724080727.GA3448@muc.de> <863alzd1mi.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216997534 30355 80.91.229.12 (25 Jul 2008 14:52:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 14:52:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 25 16:53:03 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KMOf5-0001JB-1c for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:52:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53628 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMOeB-0006V9-Ef for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:51:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KMOdd-00062R-QZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:51:21 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KMOdb-00061J-KP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:51:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51572 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KMOdb-00061F-DR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:51:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-06.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.46]:43807) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KMOdQ-0007qL-Hf; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:51:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-13-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-13-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.30]) by mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3EB531E718; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:51:06 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (mail-in-06.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.46]) by mail-in-13-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFF2F1B8E42; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:51:06 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-005-083.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.5.83]) by mail-in-06.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8529A35E71E; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:51:06 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id C2FEB1C1346B; Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:51:05 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:20:16 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.93.3/7826/Fri Jul 25 14:51:06 2008 on mail-in-06.arcor-online.net X-Virus-Status: Clean X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101463 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Richard M Stallman >> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:05:28 -0400 >> Cc: lord@emf.net, drobinow@gmail.com, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, >> hannes@saeurebad.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, acm@muc.de, miles@gnu.org >> >> > When I ask myself, is the world better for having Emacs and Firefox >> > running on Microsoft Windows, the answer is an unequivocal yes - >> > people who hack on MS-Windows can thus do a better job. >> >> But their job does not in general benefit others. So we are creating >> better opportunities for work that does not help the community. >> >> I agree. > > Are you saying that my hacking on the Windows Emacs doesn't benefit > others, including Emacs on other platforms? You don't have time left for getting Emacs-Bidi to run on any platform, right? Now it is, of course, your choice what to spend your developer time on, like it is everybody other's choice, too. In the mean time, the only workable solutions to enter right-to-left texts remain proprietary ones, like Unipad under Windows. And there are a lot of other tasks that remain to be done in order to arrive at freely available solutions for everyone and every task, whereas "every operating system including proprietary ones" is not really crucial. Keeping the focus on free platforms helps to cut down on distractions. Of course it is everybody's own choice to set his own priorities. And doing something at all is preferable to just mouthing off like I mostly do. But it is a good idea to reevaluate one's priorities from time to time and ask oneself about the net benefits. And "can people do freely now what they could not before?" is a more important question for the GNU project than "can people do on a proprietary platform now what they could only do on a free one before?". -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum