From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Leake Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: More metaproblem Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:41:54 -0600 Message-ID: <857fy4ipsd.fsf@stephe-leake.org> References: <20141203142859.24393.98673@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <20141203192721.GE12748@thyrsus.com> <547F6774.50700@cs.ucla.edu> <838uio5vjw.fsf@gnu.org> <20141203211447.GB15111@thyrsus.com> <871toge5zw.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> <83388v6hsq.fsf@gnu.org> <87egsftgd5.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <83egsf3yci.fsf@gnu.org> <87iohq6nvn.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <85bnnhkuep.fsf@stephe-leake.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417891338 32106 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 18:42:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 18:42:18 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 19:42:11 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxKJ0-0003b5-Lf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 19:42:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55220 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxKJ0-0003ss-9b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 13:42:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60198) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxKIs-0003sl-Re for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 13:42:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxKIn-0001Pc-Ow for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 13:42:02 -0500 Original-Received: from dnvrco-outbound-snat.email.rr.com ([107.14.73.232]:12063 helo=dnvrco-oedge-vip.email.rr.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxKIn-0001PW-Jb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 13:41:57 -0500 Original-Received: from [70.94.38.149] ([70.94.38.149:52768] helo=TAKVER) by dnvrco-oedge01 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 12/17-19322-4FD43845; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 18:41:56 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 6 Dec 2014 08:44:08 -0800 (PST)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.94 (windows-nt) X-RR-Connecting-IP: 107.14.64.118:25 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=Z+xiHRhA c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=AppmJ/7ZOOFWL/q6u6u93g==:117 a=AppmJ/7ZOOFWL/q6u6u93g==:17 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=fNEgcOh0sVsA:10 a=9i_RQKNPAAAA:8 a=yPCof4ZbAAAA:8 a=mDV3o1hIAAAA:8 a=ugHUW4ZV8UJrc2ZrUNsA:9 a=pWNnhZJbpfMA:10 a=Fk2GR-6GAlcA:10 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 107.14.73.232 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179202 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> Whenever someone on this list says "please follow the standard", >> they should _also_ mention ./CONTRIBUTORS, or one of the more >> detailed files in admin/notes. That will get people used to >> refering to those files, raise awareness of them, and encourage >> people to keep them up to date. > > Yes. > > That's the same kind of thing we do for user questions about > Emacs Lisp coding conventions etc.: (a) answer the question, > but also (b) refer them to the relevant doc about it in the > manuals. > > Would it hurt to put the information you refer to, which is > aimed at Emacs contributors, into the Emacs manual, as a > separate section? There is such a section; (info "(emacs)Contributing). It just references emacs-devel@gnu.org, http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/emacs/ and etc/CONTRIBUTE. I'll fix the latter reference. As you say below, I don't think we should duplicate the information in the two files, but I would not be averse to moving the info into the manual, and leaving ./CONTRIBUTE as a reference. That would allow the links I just added to ./CONTRIBUTE to be more clickable, since the texinfo is pushed to the web at http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/emacs.html, and urls in Emacs info also bring up a web browser. > A priori, that makes sense to me, but then > I don't see a logical separation between Emacs users and Emacs > contributors anyway. I certainly moved gradually from user to contributor. > IMO, it does not matter whether such info is detailed, boring, > internal stuff. It would still be good to move it from other > files to the official doc, and give it the proper love that > such doc requires. I consider ./CONTRIBUTE to _be_ "official doc". Why do you think otherwise? > I think that doing this might have these benefits: > > 1. Put more of an accent on it, for everyone. That comes from _advertising_, not from format. It makes it a little more accessible. But ./CONTRIBUTE is on the web now: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/CONTRIBUTE I just did a Google search for "Emacs contribute". The first two links are: http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Contributing.html Excellent! I need to understand exactly how/when that is updated. http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/CONTRIBUTE a currently out of date copy; again, I need to understand exactly how/when that is updated. followed by other not-so-relevant links. How much more accessible does it need to be? > The content > and form would need to be clear and complete, That comes from editing skill (I have yet to hear if my edits are acceptable). > and kept up to date, but that should be the case anyway. That comes from developer attention, which is mostly influenced by advertising. > 2. Let users know that they can contribute, That is certainly implied by the Free Software nature of Emacs. Although the climate of other developers is a big factor once people consider contributing. > and just what's involved (yes, in detail). I don't see why the format affects this. Some have suggested that the current crop of potential contributors are more comfortable reading web stuff than file stuff; do you agree with that? > 3. Encourage people to reference it, as they do now for > questions about key-binding conventions etc. I don't see why http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Contributing.html would be a better/simpler/easier reference than ./CONTRIBUTE. If you need to read ./CONTRIBUTE, you already have the source on your disk. Exception: the short list of "other ways to contribute" should be on a web page somewhere. > Just a thought. Disclaimer: I'm not familiar with the > info I'm conjecturing about. Please take a moment to read it; it's only 339 lines, about 1/3 white space. -- -- Stephe