From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.cc-mode.general,gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [simon.marshall@misys.com: Font Lock on-the-fly misfontification in C++] Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 10:42:43 +0200 Message-ID: <8564haqkfw.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <20060723142630.GB1433@muc.de> <20060731220419.GF1271@muc.de> <17616.29352.887502.516153@parhasard.net> <85mzanwjct.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <20060803091700.GB1282@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1154594706 15227 80.91.229.2 (3 Aug 2006 08:45:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 08:45:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: bug-cc-mode@gnu.org, Richard Stallman , emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org, simon.marshall@misys.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, kehoea@parhasard.net, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Original-X-From: cc-mode-help-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net Thu Aug 03 10:44:59 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: sf-cc-mode-help@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists-outbound.sourceforge.net ([66.35.250.225]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G8Ynq-0001c8-DL for sf-cc-mode-help@m.gmane.org; Thu, 03 Aug 2006 10:43:39 +0200 Original-Received: from sc8-sf-list1-new.sourceforge.net (unknown [10.3.1.93]) by sc8-sf-spam2.sourceforge.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0459FE35; Thu, 3 Aug 2006 01:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from sc8-sf-mx1-b.sourceforge.net ([10.3.1.91] helo=mail.sourceforge.net) by sc8-sf-list1-new.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G8Ynn-0007Fi-MK for cc-mode-help@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 03 Aug 2006 01:43:35 -0700 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by mail.sourceforge.net with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.44) id 1G8Ynm-0000f0-HI for cc-mode-help@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 03 Aug 2006 01:43:35 -0700 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1G8YnT-0008Dj-ET; Thu, 03 Aug 2006 04:43:15 -0400 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 8563F1C4CE02; Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:42:43 +0200 (CEST) Original-To: Alan Mackenzie In-Reply-To: <20060803091700.GB1282@muc.de> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:17:01 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by sourceforge.net. See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details. Report problems to http://sf.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=1&atid=200001 X-BeenThere: cc-mode-help@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.8 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports, feature requests, and general talk about CC Mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: cc-mode-help-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net Errors-To: cc-mode-help-bounces@lists.sourceforge.net Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.cc-mode.general:3700 gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:13272 gmane.emacs.devel:58038 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: > Morning, Richard! > > On Wed, Aug 02, 2006 at 05:20:12PM -0400, Richard Stallman wrote: >> For distinguishing the two versions I write "Emacs" and "XEmacs", >> because the context shows we are talking about these two variants >> of the original GNU Emacs. > > This leaves a difficulty when there is no context. For example, you > might find this in an overview of editors: > > (1) "Most free editors do syntax highlighting. In vim, ........ In > Emacs, syntax highlighting is usually called "font locking"." > > A bit lower down in the same article, there might be .... > > (2) "In some editors you can also highlight a region of text explicitly. > In vim you do ......., in Emacs you can type M-o M-o." > >> In other contexts, there is no need to refer to the two variants but >> there is a need to connect Emacs with the GNU system. There I write >> "GNU Emacs". > > In paragraph (1), it is clear that "Emacs" includes XEmacs. Not at all. It is clear to those knowing the editors, but they are hardly the target readership. > To substitute "Emacs and XEmacs" would make the sentence clumsy and > less readable, and wouldn't be helpful to the target readership. I can't say I agree here. And you could also write "Emacs variants", but "Emacs and XEmacs" is quite clearer and not at all clumsy. After all, jed and Microemacs, two Emacs-like editors, don't use that terminology. > In paragraph (2), the context of bare "Emacs" having previously been > set to "generic Emacs", clarity demands the substitution of "GNU > Emacs". But there is no point in an implicit "generic Emacs" context when one is discussing Emacs and XEmacs as separate editors. It is only confusing the readers, with no actual gain. > I believe "GNU Emacs" is used mainly for unambiguous identification > rather than connecting it with the GNU system - much like "John of > Gaunt" is used to clarify which John you're talking about rather > than to associate him with the town of Gent in Belgium. > > The root of the problem is that XEmacs is neither identical with > Emacs nor totally independent from it. Until such time as XEmacs > diverges completely from Emacs (another Boston tea party? ;-), or > remerges with it, there will be no good solution to the problem. Since XEmacs has diverged completely from Emacs, it is pointless to try maintaining a language greyzone which has to be constantly adjusted. Keybindings, semantics, data structures (keymaps, characters, integers, specifiers, toolbars, menubars, extents), keybindings and so on _all_ have completely diverged. The editors are dissimilar enough that users accustomed to one of them will not put up with the other interchangeably. There is almost no person who will say "I use Emacs on this computer, and XEmacs on that computer". > How about using a mixture of judgement, good sense, and tact, taking > each case on its merits? :-( It is no help to the reader if he has to secondguess the author and the author's knowledge of the internals of both Emacs and XEmacs. One could make a weak case for using "Emacs" as a proper name and "an Emacs" to signify the class of Emacs and XEmacs, but since there is usually nothing else grouped in that class ever, there is little point in doing so. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV