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From: David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org>
To: bob@rattlesnake.com
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: CVS is the `released version'
Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 22:12:57 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <854pmln4c6.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m1HlsGX-0027M2C@rattlesnake.com> (Robert J. Chassell's message of "Wed\, 9 May 2007 19\:56\:01 +0000 \(UTC\)")

"Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:

> Remember, for many people, but not for many moderns, CVS provides the
> `released version' of GNU Emacs.  It is the prime version used by
> those who contribute.  It is not a binary that cannot be changed.
> Once in a while, development needs to be frozen while bugs are fixed.
>
> Since more and more people are coming to think of or are forced to use
> big numbered releases and eschew the daily releases, they view a delay
> between one big numbered release and another as bad.  But those who
> enjoy daily releases hardly notice.
>
> I suspect we are seeing a conflict between cultures: on the one hand,
> those who install a new release of GNU Emacs every day or almost every
> day and, on the other hand, those who look for big numbered releases,
> such as that from Emacs 21 to Emacs 22.
>     
> The world is tending towards those who look for big numbered releases
> even though most contributions are small.

I can't find I agree even remotely.  A release is a point of
stability, one where one tries to make reasonably sure that the
overall consistency (of packages working together and with the core,
and of code and documentation) is in reasonable shape, for whoever
happens to use the software.

There are development phases where most changes are incremental and
where it becomes a reasonable operation to track the trunk.  The Linux
kernel development has changed its mode of operation and its
definition of "stable" and "release" a lot over the years.  Emacs
development has pretty much stalled in release anticipation, leading
to a version where one could have made a release pretty much anytime
in the last two years and have the users get something _better_ than
they are using now, and the developers a new point from which to
continue.

Architectural changes have not happened in the last few years, even
though some architectures have had a lot of problems shaken out
(Windows and MacOSX, two proprietary platforms).  Technologies like
emacs-unicode2, and even somewhat less radical changes like multitty
are not fit to be taken in mid-stride.  While the emacs-unicode2
branch is currently comparatively stable, this is not an accident but
the result of a _lot_ of duplicate work over years because of the
pent-up release.

There are no easy answers: XEmacs has decoupled packages and releases
them separately and often.  I am not convinced of the results: there
appears to be quite some bit rot happening, the beta core has been
unstable for a large time, anyway, and the packages are often not
updated or fixed for long amounts of time.

But never releasing anything for which one has at least some
inclination to stand behind it and call it "this is as good as it gets
right now" is not a good idea either, in my book.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

  parent reply	other threads:[~2007-05-09 20:12 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 146+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-05-09 19:56 CVS is the `released version' Robert J. Chassell
2007-05-09 19:59 ` Thomas Hühn
2007-05-10  2:00   ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-05-10  6:03     ` Thomas Hühn
2007-05-10 11:43       ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-05-10 11:47         ` David Kastrup
2007-05-10  6:58     ` David Kastrup
2007-05-10 11:58       ` Andrea Russo
2007-05-10 12:34         ` Thomas Hühn
2007-05-09 20:12 ` David Kastrup [this message]
2007-05-10  2:18 ` Chong Yidong
2007-05-10 18:24 ` Ken Manheimer
2007-05-10 19:05   ` Stefan Monnier
2007-05-11 18:48     ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-11 20:19       ` joakim
2007-05-12 16:47         ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-12 20:26           ` joakim
2007-05-13  8:49           ` Ryan Yeske
2007-05-13  9:38             ` David Kastrup
2007-05-13 11:28               ` Ralf Angeli
2007-05-13 12:53                 ` David Kastrup
2007-05-14  1:43               ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-14  8:09             ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-14 15:19               ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-14 18:29               ` Ryan Yeske
2007-05-16  2:23               ` Mike Mattie
2007-05-14  1:17           ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-14  5:06             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2007-05-14  6:47               ` David Kastrup
2007-05-14 15:07               ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-14 17:20                 ` Stefan Monnier
2007-05-14  6:41             ` David Kastrup
2007-05-14  8:02               ` joakim
2007-05-14 15:10               ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-14 18:41                 ` Ryan Yeske
2007-05-14 19:03                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-05-14 19:16                   ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-14 22:36                   ` Ryan Yeske
2007-05-16 15:46                   ` Stefan Monnier
2007-05-17 12:43                     ` David Kastrup
2007-05-17 14:17                       ` Stefan Monnier
2007-05-15 23:52                 ` thorne
2007-05-18 23:10             ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-18 23:31               ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-19 22:31                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-19 22:33                   ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-20 17:05                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-20 21:45                       ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-21  5:19                         ` David Kastrup
2007-05-21 10:33                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-21 10:46                           ` David Kastrup
2007-05-21 18:36                             ` JD Smith
2007-05-21 18:47                               ` David Kastrup
2007-05-21 18:51                               ` Chong Yidong
2007-05-21 19:02                                 ` David Kastrup
2007-05-22 14:52                                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-25 21:13                               ` Ken Manheimer
2007-05-25 21:24                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2007-05-26  7:01                                 ` David Kastrup
2007-05-28  3:10                                   ` dhruva
2007-05-29  0:02                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-29  6:21                                       ` dhruva
2007-05-29  9:30                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2007-05-29 10:30                                           ` Frank Schmitt
2007-05-29 14:36                                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2007-05-29 14:45                                               ` Frank Schmitt
2007-05-29 17:49                                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2007-05-29 22:00                                                   ` David Kastrup
2007-05-30 15:43                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-30 16:15                                                       ` joakim
2007-06-02 17:29                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-06-03  9:56                                                           ` Frank Schmitt
2007-05-30 15:44                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-30 21:55                                                     ` Frank Schmitt
2007-05-31 22:32                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-30  4:27                                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-06-03  3:23                                 ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-22  8:30                             ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-21 16:33                           ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-21 18:32                             ` CVS is the `released version' (ELL and the ohio lisp archive) Stephen Eglen
2007-05-24 21:22                             ` CVS is the `released version' Richard Stallman
2007-05-24 21:58                               ` New Extensions (was: Re: CVS is the `released version') Henrik Enberg
2007-05-24 21:22                             ` CVS is the `released version' Richard Stallman
2007-05-21 12:03                         ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-05-21 12:13                           ` David Kastrup
2007-05-21 12:45                           ` Stefan Monnier
2007-05-21 13:18                           ` jasonr
2007-05-21 15:39                             ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-05-22 10:10                               ` Stefan Monnier
2007-05-22 11:18                                 ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-05-22 13:36                                   ` David Kastrup
2007-05-22 15:19                                     ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-05-22 15:37                                       ` Jason Rumney
2007-05-22 15:12                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2007-05-22 17:24                                     ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-05-23 14:54                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2007-05-23 15:02                                       ` Jason Rumney
2007-05-23 19:08                                         ` Robert J. Chassell
2007-05-21  2:57                       ` Bob Rogers
2007-05-21 13:24                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-21 16:22                           ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-21 12:53                     ` Stefan Monnier
2007-05-21 16:41                       ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-21 19:40                         ` Stefan Monnier
2007-05-22  4:38                     ` Xavier Maillard
2007-05-20  7:54                   ` David Kastrup
2007-05-20 21:53                     ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-21  5:24                       ` David Kastrup
2007-05-21  5:53                         ` dhruva
2007-05-21  6:51                           ` David Kastrup
2007-05-21  8:47                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2007-05-21  9:22                           ` David Kastrup
2007-05-21 13:24                         ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-21 13:51                           ` David Kastrup
2007-05-24 21:22                             ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-21 10:17                       ` package.el (was: Re: CVS is the `released version') David Reitter
2007-05-21 17:40                         ` package.el Tom Tromey
2007-05-21 18:13                           ` package.el David Kastrup
2007-05-21 22:43                           ` package.el David Reitter
2007-05-21 22:51                             ` package.el Tom Tromey
2007-05-21 23:48                               ` package.el Davis Herring
2007-05-21 23:56                                 ` package.el Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2007-05-25 21:39                                 ` package.el Tom Tromey
2007-05-27  1:00                                   ` package.el Richard Stallman
2007-05-21 23:50                               ` package.el David Reitter
2007-05-21 23:44                                 ` package.el Tom Tromey
2007-05-22  2:21                                   ` package.el Stephen J. Turnbull
2007-05-22 10:18                                   ` package.el Stefan Monnier
2007-05-21 22:57                             ` package.el David Kastrup
2007-05-20 22:05                     ` CVS is the `released version' Richard Stallman
2007-05-19 22:31                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-19 22:31                   ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-20 17:05                     ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-20 21:23                       ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-21 12:59                       ` Stefan Monnier
2007-05-21 13:03                         ` David Kastrup
2007-05-21 14:14                           ` Stefan Monnier
2007-05-21 16:50                         ` Tom Tromey
2007-05-22 14:51                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-22  6:10               ` Trent Buck
2007-05-22  7:56                 ` David Kastrup
2007-05-24 21:22                 ` Richard Stallman
2007-05-10 20:42   ` David Kastrup
2007-05-10 23:05 ` Lukasz Stafiniak
2007-05-10 23:23   ` Davis Herring
2007-05-11 12:31     ` Thien-Thi Nguyen

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