From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: C-h K and C-h F in the Help menu Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 00:56:38 +0200 Message-ID: <853bf49uft.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <446F87C6.4090109@student.lu.se> <85hd3k9y22.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <446F9027.50409@student.lu.se> <85bqts9wjx.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <7dbe73ed0605201544u3e34e12fx3eab4307e653671c@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1148165861 31297 80.91.229.2 (20 May 2006 22:57:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 22:57:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Lennart Borgman , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 21 00:57:38 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FhaO8-0006qN-FS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 00:57:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FhaO8-0004MV-3b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 May 2006 18:57:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FhaNs-0004Jh-JK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 May 2006 18:57:20 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FhaNs-0004Iy-2a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 May 2006 18:57:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FhaNr-0004Io-Lq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 May 2006 18:57:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FhaRV-0003ex-11 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 May 2006 19:01:05 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1FhaNc-00083w-IZ; Sat, 20 May 2006 18:57:08 -0400 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 4CD461C27933; Sun, 21 May 2006 00:56:38 +0200 (CEST) Original-To: "Mathias Dahl" In-Reply-To: <7dbe73ed0605201544u3e34e12fx3eab4307e653671c@mail.gmail.com> (Mathias Dahl's message of "Sun, 21 May 2006 00:44:35 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:54902 Archived-At: "Mathias Dahl" writes: > David wrote: > >> >> Not a good idea since the navigation in HTML is much worse than in >> >> info-mode. >> >> >> > Maybe not for a novice? >> >> We don't want to lead users into dead ends, even if it is easy to do. > > I can understand if there is a problem linking to the HTML-version > of the documentation (relying on a link to an external resource > could be a problem), but I don't see why the HTML-version should be > that bad. Exactly why is the "navigation much worse" You don't have "up", "next", "previous", "top" keyboard keys, and the respective buttons scroll around with the rest of the page. You don't have a working index command, and if you look manually in the index (by choosing first the top node, then the index node) you don't have completion. If you jumped to an index location, you can't use "," to jump to the next occurence. You can't search for phrases except in the current node. You can't page scroll through successive nodes by pressing just "space" repeatedly. You can't follow links into other info manuals. > and what is the "dead end" here? An utterly crippled hypertext system which the user thinks adequate because he does not know the alternatives. > People are used to find their way around HTML-pages these days and > modern browsers have good search capabilities. Come off it. You'd need a web crawler to search more than a single node. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum