From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:41:08 +0200 Message-ID: <853b2mgi3v.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177674095 21342 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 11:41:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:41:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Glenn Morris , emacs-devel@gnu.org, user42@zip.com.au, rms@gnu.org, "Kim F. Storm" To: "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 13:41:30 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhOpJ-0004sf-8F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:41:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOv9-000219-1n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:47:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOv5-0001zd-DG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:47:23 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOv4-0001yg-LB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:47:22 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOv4-0001yb-IY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:47:22 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhOpD-000450-T2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:41:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhOmP-0005Am-EY; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:38:25 -0400 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id E6D0E1C13429; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:41:08 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> (Lennart Borgman's message of "Fri\, 27 Apr 2007 13\:14\:30 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70242 Archived-At: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" writes: > Kim F. Storm wrote: >> Richard Stallman writes: >> >>> I think if you install a ~150 line patch that affects how modes are >>> selected, another pretest will be needed. >>> >>> Please do not exaggerate. There are about 52 lines of code changes, >>> bu most of them are just indentation changes. Real changes are about >>> 20 lines. >>> >>> But I agree we should make one more pretest. >>> >>> This problem really bothers people, so we should not leave it unfixed. >> >> Richard, sorry for shouting, but how else can I make you listen: >> >> WHAT _REALLY_ BOTHERS PEOPLE IS THAT EMACS 22.1 IS NOT RELEASED YET. > > > I beg to differ. The current situation is very inconvenient and > confusing sometimes when you open for example php files. There have been five years to go about fixing this. NOW IS NOT THE TIME!!! > I can understand that this does not bother you at all as long as you > do not do something similar to that, but please have patience with > us who tries to make it possible to use Emacs for those kind of > things too. If we have patience for every user of any of the multitude of modes for all combinations of every little problem, to the degree to let them mess with variables affecting _all_ users at any point in the release process, there will never be a release and _all_ users are left out in the cold. We are in the final release stage. Anything but last-minute regressions or catastrophic failure is _not_ supposed to hold up the release. There will _always_ be fixes to apply, year after year, decade after decade. We can't get every conceivable fix into every release. Much more and worse problems will crop up after the release, and dealing with them (which requires hearing about them) is _held_ _up_ indefinitely by never ever releasing Emacs to the public. I am _very_ certain that the last few problems that have nonsensically blocked the release for the fast few weeks will be _dwarfed_ by the amounts of bugs that still remain. There is no _point_ in holding up the release further. It _delays_ further development, further bugfixes, alienates users and developers and makes Emacs a far _worse_ editor than it could be if it was released to people actually _using_ it heavy-duty, instead of keeping a small circle playing around with buglets that are comparatively irrelevant for normal use and have easy and understandable workarounds. Instead we are _still_ forcing people to work with Emacs versions that are 6 years old and _far_ _far_ buggier than anything we could have released in the last few months or even years. It is a bloody shame. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum