From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CVS is the `released version' Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 07:24:35 +0200 Message-ID: <853b1qg358.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <2cd46e7f0705101124r72000f78xdf05d18ca815ca57@mail.gmail.com> <17991.47259.210100.801472@localhost.localdomain> <85d50wq6a9.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1179725098 12767 80.91.229.12 (21 May 2007 05:24:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 05:24:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, joakim@verona.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: tromey@redhat.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 21 07:24:56 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hq0O6-0007Fn-45 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 07:24:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq0O4-0001Wj-J3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 01:24:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq0Nz-0001WW-QW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 01:24:47 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq0Ny-0001WK-8n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 01:24:47 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hq0Ny-0001WH-36 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 May 2007 01:24:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-02.arcor-online.net ([151.189.21.42]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hq0Nu-0003Ia-7q; Mon, 21 May 2007 01:24:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (mail-in-10-z2.arcor-online.net [151.189.8.27]) by mail-in-02.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91BA22DA339; Mon, 21 May 2007 07:24:36 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (mail-in-01.arcor-online.net [151.189.21.41]) by mail-in-01-z2.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 858C723D3A1; Mon, 21 May 2007 07:24:36 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from lola.goethe.zz (dslb-084-061-003-161.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.61.3.161]) by mail-in-01.arcor-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 479FC19B32B; Mon, 21 May 2007 07:24:36 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id CCD4F1C4CE33; Mon, 21 May 2007 07:24:35 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Tom Tromey's message of "Sun\, 20 May 2007 15\:53\:21 -0600") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:71465 Archived-At: Tom Tromey writes: >>>>>> "David" == David Kastrup writes: > > David> I am not comfortable with having Emacs automatically install and load > David> anything, period. > > Just to be clear here, package.el never automatically installs > anything. You must ask for it using the package menu mode (or some > other install approach). Once something is installed, it is > automatically activated when package-initialize is called -- but this > is an intentional feature. > > David> I consider the "fixed repository" > David> approach something that does not work out. Each package should carry > David> with itself the information where to ask for updates. > > I considered this but rejected it for two reasons. > > First, in my view it is simply more convenient for users to have a > single, pre-configured download site. That way no configuration of > package.el is needed, it "just works". Yes, this is slightly harder > for package maintainers, but I've tried to make package.el impose as > few hardships as possible, and I think the burden is not too great. Please take a look at how the XEmacs package system works. It has a central repository. It tends to distribute outdated or non-working code because the people maintaining the central server tend to be not the same creating the packages. In my opinion, it is the crucial weakness of the XEmacs package system. We don't want to go there. If some package is provided upstream, we want to have it directly usable from its default download location. > Second, 3rd party sites often die. ELL has many stale links in it, > and in my view the free-for-all of the Emacs Wiki is a bit too scary > to trust blindly. I know that the worst failure mode with a site > under my control (hosted on my web site or on savannah) is that it > will go stale -- which while lamentable at least is not a potential > security hole. Where is the problem with that? Allow for fallback sites to be specified. The fallback may well end in a central repository, and if you are lucky, the package drawn from there will have been updated to know where to get more recent packages in future. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum