From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alexander Kotelnikov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: converting between charsets Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 13:39:46 +0400 Organization: Global disintoxication Message-ID: <84hd40am8t.fsf@vinci.loc> References: <87lktejh6f.fsf@myxomop.com> <87u082109z.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> <84veshaajc.fsf@vinci.loc> <87d5ep1a2c.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1147081253 17938 80.91.229.2 (8 May 2006 09:40:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 09:40:53 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 08 11:40:52 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fd2EV-00037V-2o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 May 2006 11:40:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fd2EU-0004A8-HB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 May 2006 05:40:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Fd2EB-00048a-3b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2006 05:40:31 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Fd2EA-000483-E4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2006 05:40:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fd2E9-00047s-S9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2006 05:40:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [80.91.229.2] (helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fd2Ex-0005tZ-AM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2006 05:41:19 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Fd2Dw-000305-0G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2006 11:40:16 +0200 Original-Received: from 81.211.124.120.adsl-spb.net.rol.ru ([81.211.124.120]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 08 May 2006 11:40:15 +0200 Original-Received: from sacha by 81.211.124.120.adsl-spb.net.rol.ru with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 08 May 2006 11:40:15 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 253 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.211.124.120.adsl-spb.net.rol.ru Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.1007 (Gnus v5.10.7) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:aDxmJ73dr6SaAhjv1O6vMzBQ5TA= X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:54076 Archived-At: --=-=-= >>>>> On Sun, 07 May 2006 23:28:09 -0400 >>>>> "SM" == Stefan Monnier wrote: SM> >>>> After I switched to utf-8 as my basic environment encoding (on Linux) >>>> I got need of converting some texts sometimes back to koi8-r. Typical >>>> task here is to convert outgoing mail to persons and newsgroups >>>> hierarchies which do not understand multibyte encodings.] SM> SM> Emacs always converts from/to the encoding you use. So you don't really SM> need to "convert from utf-8 to koi8", when sending email because, before the SM> email is sent, it's not any more in utf-8 than in any other encoding (other SM> than the internal encoding). SM> I.e. all you need is to tell Emacs that when sending to newsgroups such and SM> such, it should use koi8 rather than utf-8. How to do that depends on the SM> newsreader you're using. SM> >> I am using Gnus, it does not have such functionality, SM> SM> In what way does the functionality described in the node "Charsets" of the SM> Gnus manual fail to provide the functionality you need? It fails. Its default value contains element ("^\\(fido7\\|relcom\\)\\.[^,]*\\(,[ \n]*\\(fido7\\|relcom\\)\\.[^,]*\\)*$" koi8-r (koi8-r)) and my post to fido7 hierarchy go in utf-8 anyway. >>>> Theoretically something like >>>> (encode-coding-region (point-min) (point-max) 'koi8-r) >>>> should work, but it does not. SM> I don't think that's true in theory. >> Why? SM> SM> Because it completely depends on how and when you do it. There already is SM> an encoding step taking place somewhere. So if you only add a call to SM> encode-coding-region somewhere you'll simply cause a double encoding to SM> happen which will most likely give you garbage. Let's first talk about encoding regions. Why does not it work with encode-coding-region? What about garbage, if encoding/decoiding works I can always decode into internal representation and encode into desired charset in send-hook. I would be happy to get an answer on question: "How do I decode and encode in Emacs?" SM> So one way to do it is to take care of the encoding yourself, which may SM> amount to doing the whole "send" yourself (i.e. the NIH approach). SM> Or the NIH? SM> other way is to figure out how to tell the code that already does the SM> encoding to use koi8 rather than utf-8. There is no such code right now, and, probably, I will write it. But I'll need to make an encoding into koi8-r which does not seems to work. >> I have started emacs without ~/.emacs and evaluated >> (setq default-input-method "cyrillic-jcuken") SM> SM> What's your locale? What version of Emacs is this? SM> >> What I got: >> 1. Paste into Emacs frame works strange: SM> SM> What text did you paste? Where does it come from? I type some Russian text in xterm and paste in into Emacs, have a look at the attached screenshot. --=-=-= Content-Type: image/png Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=emacs_cyrillic_paste.png Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: see the difference iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAuQAAADvCAYAAAC6/MGPAAAABmJLR0QA/wD/AP+gvaeTAAAACXBI WXMAAA9hAAAPYQGoP6dpAAAAB3RJTUUH1gUICSU7U87wQQAAAB10RVh0Q29tbWVudABDcmVhdGVk IHdpdGggVGhlIEdJTVDvZCVuAAAgAElEQVR42u3dv6sl2WEn8LpNJ0bjYLzpBjJIaBKDaEeaYGAb NuvO1pEUOLEeDAYHUqercBeaCRaD4O0mCqy/oDtawxg6GEXdDFigGWaDweDQO4Gs+DroqVZ19fl9 qurWrff5wOO9d+vWr1On6n7r3FNVp0ePHp0HAAAO7+XL7ymEHbo/DMPw9OlTJQEAcGBPnjxRCHsO 5MMwDC9evFAaAMBqfvrTnzaP+8UXX3QF0Z7GxyOMz77dUwQAwFH1htG7Pj7buB968cMPP8yO+Mtf /nL44Q9/qAQBgM30fqN/18fnigL5MAzDX/yvv4iO9M9/989KDgAA1gzkwzAM5//zxxuwnP7mpLQA AGBhyT7kp785vfkJ+fzzzxdbkJubG1sDAA7sdGr/gTsbyAEAgAsG8rHLyrTrSq95S/jNzc2b16bD xtdD74/9Do0PAAB7luxDPnZViXVZabnLyu3t7XBzc/PW7zFAh/6u/X8M4bFpAQDA7gP5Z599lryT 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-nw in xterm still does not work, if I just >> change X keyboard layout. SM> SM> That doesn't give us much to go on, does it? What does it do, other than SM> "not work"? It beeps. -- Alexander Kotelnikov Saint-Petersburg, Russia --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Emacs-devel mailing list Emacs-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel --=-=-=--