From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Would you say this information window is well designed? Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 23:49:43 +0200 Message-ID: <84e3f5ab-436e-c0ea-39f1-2466f3227910@yandex.ru> References: <83sg5oueex.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8gbvr4m.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30330"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 Cc: laszlomail@protonmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 22 22:51:39 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lEJ7C-0007lc-Id for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 22:51:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36518 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lEJ7B-000846-H8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 16:51:37 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35214) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lEJ5T-00077Q-07 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 16:49:51 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x430.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::430]:41246) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lEJ5R-0000PZ-5t; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 16:49:50 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x430.google.com with SMTP id c7so3870982wru.8; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 13:49:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6FWEy0wjjytPoIbL9X0BOX/WgW1Ky3iZW0FnNqj6bPo=; b=PiYn/IoJwHPoa1uPsAyra++j/7EBERzlaCy+xBTYtgSq73EuwOt3jG9xINfpY3G4Rn cShzTnRq1bDMpxNHDc6IFdTSiIxan1rz6ZY+Hp/fND7NMeKj4CsiG5al8B8dcdgpNqBo CaWtKeYjQ2hZMn0XnpNVknwpUAuQchr6CFzXcKstId+iq61sCry10Brrs5ULHe0L7dWH Of8B4v68HbUNFD/UygjrcoUs982PketG8C5ttWZmCbq5FD0d3qp+ZZD8abxQLEok3DGB fBfE8nIPGbM0In17+yFg2lHUkI98DxwGk9HcoDSyGW49fBbKX+a++xXz+P1/9Lshh8PU 44AA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=6FWEy0wjjytPoIbL9X0BOX/WgW1Ky3iZW0FnNqj6bPo=; b=rMDhZBeQlt5feLXlRzRPyBHPJ59YBrxmBcCdc5XonJRf8BMFVLewF/YZfCby5H/0bR wtPOEJ9CWT1SsPMQI4Pz/jEAysNkTGYFZEGJfplrDSPDzRKATXoR/MY8Q9g5hg4uCL9C RH8R2Z2yHXnu+aROmo0zQ+0vPY57hV97b5NcZ8nmGMetYGVND9ObJgLXeijpWXIKVhA7 Ausuh3CC6AzWhwdodwTiC6rQ30n7qgWlyasgYJPP6QSRSHyf+pDt0F5e64L294ngDLeF Qr5IYVQntco9WMISzamTLCH09//ClBzdIatf8f/sHdIEx7DaCrcek9hAb1o7Qdzzp7ZP EcNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5332vWNHMuDRdeDTadkXpFZ0Meuc77KyprDMHseyVaBYQIdnHH0K Ky76ccN97IETfG8D1uzXPsigvQ8QV48= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzCpRG91s7quLo9xZoOrJqOSDix+SgOAyiBjNewBSnfmYzBhjiKy1u6ASPmCdYYYkphzSwB8w== X-Received: by 2002:adf:e60e:: with SMTP id p14mr6262211wrm.388.1614030586954; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 13:49:46 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.6] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id j2sm8007349wrt.81.2021.02.22.13.49.45 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 22 Feb 2021 13:49:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83o8gbvr4m.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::430; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x430.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:265508 Archived-At: On 22.02.2021 21:28, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> The only extra info on the screenshot are the "View in manual" button >> (which I would imagine you find appealing, given that it will lead more >> users to read the manual) and the "References" section, which is not >> essential, IMHO. The rest are mostly presentation. > > I _was_ talking about those two additions. (Though we don't see all > of the buffer, only its top, so more surprises could be below.) Yes, there are more. But I thought we were only discussing the screenshot. To be clear, I'm not advocating for the additions of any of those that would slow down the rendering of the Help buffer. >> Though the "key bindings" section is interesting in that is also shows >> the keymap where each bindings resides. This would have saved me some >> extra debugging efforts in the past. > > Each one of these could be useful, but not all of them together, and > not every time. It's too much. But as an opt-in feature, why not? It will be a missed opportunity to teach some new users that they can/should use the manual for more in-depth explanations. Or that Emacs actually knows more about the function and its symbol. Anyway, I'll stop here. If you don't think we should push for manual's higher visibility, I certainly don't.