From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: kai.grossjohann@gmx.net (Kai =?iso-8859-1?q?Gro=DFjohann?=) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gtk scrollbar: thumb too short Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 15:11:18 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <844r5hf3ih.fsf@lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de> References: <20030325193739.ZGIN3924.fep01-svc.swip.net@gaffa.gaia.swipnet.se> <3E8345E8.4090509@swipnet.se> <1048872463.17161.132.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1049134327.3326.74.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200304020429.h324TOP11647@eel.dms.auburn.edu> <84of3p2m44.fsf@lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de> <200304021352.h32DqLO11793@eel.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1049293941 31172 80.91.224.249 (2 Apr 2003 14:32:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 14:32:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 02 16:32:16 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 190jHk-00086B-00 for ; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 16:32:16 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 190jIr-0007sU-00 for ; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 16:33:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 190jFR-0002aN-01 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:29:53 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 190jAE-0008Vc-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:24:30 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 190j8p-0007oe-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:23:04 -0500 Original-Received: from mailout08.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.20]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 190iyR-0001jT-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:12:20 -0500 Original-Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.de by mailout08.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 190iyL-0005LY-07; Wed, 02 Apr 2003 16:12:13 +0200 Original-Received: from lucy (520080024987-0001@[217.225.233.27]) by fmrl02.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 190iy7-0N5peyC; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 16:11:59 +0200 Original-Received: by lucy (Postfix, from userid 1003) id 327E628628; Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:11:18 +0200 (CEST) Original-To: Luc Teirlinck In-Reply-To: <200304021352.h32DqLO11793@eel.dms.auburn.edu> (Luc Teirlinck's message of "Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:52:21 -0600 (CST)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.090018 (Oort Gnus v0.18) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-Sender: 520080024987-0001@t-dialin.net X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:12842 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:12842 Luc Teirlinck writes: > Kai GrossJohann wrote: > > I agree that this would be confusing, but until now I thought that > Emacs was the only (Gtk) program which exhibited PixelStuff behavior. > > I indeed have trouble finding other applications that allow > overscrolling. But it is clear that there are people who wish that > there were more applications that would. OK. > If an application with a pixel based philosophy decides to allow > overscrolling, it is likely that it would want the scrollbar to > behave in the way I described PixelStuff's scrollbar. Really? I never thought that one follows from the other. For me, the no-toolkit Emacs scrollbar behavior near end of buffer appears very intuitive, and I never made a direct connection between this behavior and the fact that the thumb changes size from time to time even in the middle of the buffer. I also observed thumb shrinking in *shell* buffers (when there is a shell command producing lots of output), and I subconsciously lumped this together with the thumb shrinking when overscrolling. For me, the idea that (thumb size / total scrollbar size) is equal to (visible amount of content / total buffer size) is very intuitive. You can observe it in many situations. It doesn't (directly) have anything to do with the question of how to measure size. -- A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.