From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: quotation marks [was Re: TUTORIAL.de updated] Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:10:40 +0200 Message-ID: <83zkdh2zfz.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20120118.161204.348826368.wl@gnu.org> <20248.15413.907023.894588@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <4x1uqv4pbx.fsf_-_@fencepost.gnu.org> <056566D61BA5441E860782777E736F44@us.oracle.com> <4F18A26A.1020402@cs.ucla.edu> <20120120074922.GA3095@acm.acm> <4F1929BA.7020004@cs.ucla.edu> <838vl24thl.fsf@gnu.org> <4F19E7FC.40301@cs.ucla.edu> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1327137060 25180 80.91.229.12 (21 Jan 2012 09:11:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 09:11:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, ulm@gentoo.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 21 10:10:55 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RoWyL-0003nZ-GO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 10:10:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43805 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RoWyK-0000QI-G3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 04:10:52 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:33892) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RoWyE-0000QC-Ly for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 04:10:50 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RoWyA-0003pB-BX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 04:10:46 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:35695) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RoWyA-0003p5-4C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 04:10:42 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LY500C005BM0J00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:10:40 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.124.116.75]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LY500BGU5HQVFC0@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:10:40 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <4F19E7FC.40301@cs.ucla.edu> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-Received-From: 80.179.55.175 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147807 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:17:32 -0800 > From: Paul Eggert > CC: acm@muc.de, ulm@gentoo.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > > On 01/20/2012 01:24 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2011-08/msg00445.html > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2011-08/msg00447.html > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2011-08/msg00451.html > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2011-08/msg00518.html > > Those messages are about using ASCII-only email, or having Emacs not > unexpectedly insert Unicode characters into an ASCII-only document, > or things of that sort, things that are about Emacs users in general. > Those are all valid issues, but they don't contradict the basic point > that it's becoming less important to cater to ASCII-only development > environments. Read the whole (longish) thread if you want to understand the context. The context was precisely what is being discussed here: should we seriously cater to ASCII-only environments, or can we forget about them or treat them as second-class citizens. The rest were examples invoked to make this point or refute it. > We routinely place more requirements on Emacs developers than on Emacs users, > and in particular we assume that Emacs developers can routinely view and > otherwise deal with non-ASCII characters when they need to. This is not > an assumption we could have made 30 years ago, but it's a safe assumption > today. I don't see how the difference between Emacs developers and users comes into play here. The change of the quotes is proposed for doc strings, manuals, and other user-visible places.