From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Preview: portable dumper Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 21:35:14 +0200 Message-ID: <83zikiqdu5.fsf@gnu.org> References: <047a67ec-9e29-7e4e-0fb0-24c3e59b5886@dancol.org> <83zikjxt1j.fsf@gnu.org> <8360n6ruzu.fsf@gnu.org> <0839b53b-4607-144f-3746-db054a29c1cd@cs.ucla.edu> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1480448193 27658 195.159.176.226 (29 Nov 2016 19:36:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 19:36:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dancol@dancol.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 29 20:36:27 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cBoCZ-0006Ch-Kv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 20:36:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38972 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBoCd-0008TQ-Hr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 14:36:31 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53446) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBoBc-0008Rz-Sl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 14:35:29 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBoBY-0002x3-K7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 14:35:28 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:39448) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBoBY-0002wy-H3; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 14:35:24 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1187 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1cBoBQ-0001V4-7i; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 14:35:17 -0500 In-reply-to: <0839b53b-4607-144f-3746-db054a29c1cd@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Tue, 29 Nov 2016 11:13:37 -0800) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:209757 Archived-At: > Cc: dancol@dancol.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 11:13:37 -0800 > > On 11/29/2016 10:39 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > If we don't attract more core developers, we will never get out of this vicious cycle. > > Although we certainly could use more core developers, it's quite a > stretch to say that switching from unexec to a portable undumper will > scare recruits away. Which is why I didn't say that. > On the contrary, the portable approach is simpler and easier for > non-experts than what we have now. I didn't compare the proposed portable dumper with what we have now, so this is a red herring. > > C programmers are a dying breed > I don't agree, as C is an essential component of GNU/Linux and is > robustly represented in the practical and research programming > communities. (For what it's worth, C's popularity is ranked #7 in PyPL > and #2 in TIOBE.) When did you last try to hire a C or C++ programmer? As another data point, just look in the logs at the names of people who make C-level changes, and count them. I didn't say I like this, but leading a project to be viable in the future needs to look at the reality, not at our wishful thinking.