From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Interactive guide for new users (was: Re: Gather a list of confusions beginner tend to have) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 09:02:55 +0300 Message-ID: <83zh5vedm8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <32292E31-1603-4EF9-B772-EBD378C32F76@gmail.com> <83o8mcfjxb.fsf@gnu.org> <83een8fi2u.fsf@gnu.org> <83blicfh1l.fsf@gnu.org> <837dt0f936.fsf@gnu.org> <20200911194852.sdtu3sthpdpkaijo@Ergus> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38232"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ghe@sdf.org, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 08:03:50 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kGyda-0009ru-I6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 08:03:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49888 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGydZ-0003cv-K2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 02:03:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49904) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGycn-0002dx-JN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 02:03:01 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58122) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGycn-0001dk-8j; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 02:03:01 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2349 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kGycm-0001WW-Cj; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 02:03:00 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20200911194852.sdtu3sthpdpkaijo@Ergus> (message from Ergus on Fri, 11 Sep 2020 21:48:52 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255270 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 21:48:52 +0200 > From: Ergus > Cc: Gregory Heytings , casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > >But if you think such "3-minute users" need a document to get them > >started, by all means, write such a document. It is not what the > >tutorial attempts to do, though. > > > > Lets say that the problem is the unfamiliar way how emacs work in some > aspects. Like what? please be more specific, otherwise it's very hard to understand what you have in mind. > In this list is repeated constantly that we shouldn't do this > or that; or use a such set of bindings, colors, or methods just because > the other editors do. So the only way to keep that is enforcing a > learning curve because very little users will arrive trained in "the > emacs way". Once again: most basic things people expect from an editor "just work" in Emacs OOTB. > If a user opens any editor around he never looks into the menus for copy > or paste, but just right-click and a panel or C-c and C-v as they are > standard anywhere else. So this is about CUA-like key bindings? or is there anything else? > I don't like to enable CUA mode by default, but start emacs and work is > not so easy so if a user only have 3 minutes to start he will open > gedit, kwire, kate or geany and everything works as expected in those 3 > minutes. Fine, then I guess this is what the "3-minute tutorial" should say. > >> You mention "doc strings", but why on earth would a user who just started > >> using Emacs read doc strings? > > > >To learn more about Emacs, of course. > > > > I said that, 5-10 minutes is a bit better than 3. IMO the Mike's videos > are the perfect format. Maybe the only problem is the emacs window size > on the screen and that they are more oriented to the external packages > than in the internals. To have video tutorials for these purposes is perfectly okay. I hope we will be able to have them soon. Thanks.