From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 17:10:00 +0300 Message-ID: <83zh5hx5qf.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4be18b5f-dc07-2703-a2de-1ed08916ebdf@gmail.com> <20200921170740.GA3551@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200922062437.GM6402@protected.rcdrun.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35523"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: nicola.manca85@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 22 16:11:54 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kKj1N-00099c-Vz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 16:11:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40868 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kKj1N-0003gn-14 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 10:11:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43812) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kKizf-0002gj-7U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 10:10:07 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:50278) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kKize-0004vZ-Da; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 10:10:06 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3525 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kKizV-0000tU-DF; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 10:09:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20200922062437.GM6402@protected.rcdrun.com> (message from Jean Louis on Tue, 22 Sep 2020 09:24:37 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256323 Archived-At: > Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 09:24:37 +0300 > From: Jean Louis > Cc: nicola.manca85@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > I understand that you have no need for this -- but why do you object > > to it? > > It is changing defaults and facing me and also the new users with > complexities, in general, it gives an active obligation to the user > versus the splash screen that does not disturb the user in the > workflow. You personally may find it annoying, but please keep in mind that many applications nowadays offer to take the user through a similar process first time the application is started after installation. So I presume many newcomers to Emacs will not be surprised by that, and maybe will even expect something like that. > Emacs in my opinion does not need configuration assistant that user > has to confront, as user installed Emacs for text editing purposes, Emacs is not just a text editor, it is a large and rich environment for many tasks that require text-processing. Treating it just as a program for inserting, deleting, and searching text runs the risk of missing the point of this discussion. > Editing Basic text editing facilities. > Text Support for editing text files. > > Those two customization groups differ in their description only > slightly if at all, so that is what is not friendly, as user I would > not see easy difference. If I click on "Editing" I am referring to > editing of text, if I click on Text, I am referring to editing of > text. Actually, "Text" is not (or at least should not be) about editing text, it is about editing human-readable text (as opposed to programming language text, for example). We should probably make that clear in the group description, and also make sure the packages in that category are indeed all about human-readable text. Thank you for pointing out this point of potential confusion.