From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2016 22:37:50 +0200 Message-ID: <83y49spuxt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <64a52598-ad53-498c-993c-67d7827dbdfc@default> <838u1uuuau.fsf@gnu.org> <878u1um2xl.fsf@thinkpad.rath.org> <87fuw090k7.fsf@wanadoo.es> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457469496 10624 80.91.229.3 (8 Mar 2016 20:38:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 20:38:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 08 21:38:01 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1adOOG-0005gf-3A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2016 21:38:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37192 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adOOF-0001jT-BZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2016 15:37:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60535) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adOO1-0001jJ-TM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2016 15:37:46 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adONw-0004ZU-Ti for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2016 15:37:45 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47367) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adONw-0004ZQ-Qg; Tue, 08 Mar 2016 15:37:40 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3187 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1adONw-0005uY-4V; Tue, 08 Mar 2016 15:37:40 -0500 In-reply-to: <87fuw090k7.fsf@wanadoo.es> (message from =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3s?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?car?= Fuentes on Tue, 08 Mar 2016 21:28:24 +0100) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201204 Archived-At: > From: Óscar Fuentes > Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2016 21:28:24 +0100 > > John Wiegley writes: > > >> The ChangeLog is useful for some of us. But I would contend that its > >> usefulness doesn't trump all the contributors we have discouraged by > >> insisting on our quite singular submission format. > > ChangeLogs also have a big impact when long-lived branches need to be > merged, and IIRC are a major pain for external projects that > periodically merge with Emacs (org). With or without git-merge-changelog installed? With it the problems should be minimal or non-existent, IME. > > - First, and most importantly, we have significant contributors who rely on > > and enjoy the ChangeLog file -- even if there are others, and potential > > contributors, who dislike it. > > > > If people doing the "real work" are using this file, we should > > keep it. > > Why not explore the possibility of giving the information they want from > the VC system? As I see this issue, the ChangeLog is seen as > indispensable by those who don't know how to use Git. We can ask them > about their requirements and try to provide the necessary Emacs > commands. Using Git is not a problem for me. The problem is that the information in Git log is unreliable. The other problem is that will never succeed in teaching new contributors how to make good log messages unless we have an easy way of fixing mistakes there.