From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 08:28:54 +0300 Message-ID: <83y2qwdmnd.fsf@gnu.org> References: <8wXYP4GY9hwW-9mYv6_LGMETZ8Vz3Ob1Bec6yh6kPT7yxjTkxA3V6dXY4ELra9tYiJUxJmgXKSIEX4w8HFiPRoeGVSQHDSoBVy1voj1e3Qo=@protonmail.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="110994"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ndame@protonmail.com, stefan@marxist.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 16 07:29:50 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jOx5x-000Slw-Td for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 07:29:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58040 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jOx5x-0002Va-0K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 01:29:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55188) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jOx5U-00026b-4f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 01:29:21 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54005) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jOx5T-0007d6-FU; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 01:29:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4909 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jOx5J-0000Po-PT; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 01:29:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Wed, 15 Apr 2020 22:30:20 -0400) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247074 Archived-At: > From: Richard Stallman > Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 22:30:20 -0400 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, ndame@protonmail.com > > Another question about them: are they among the segment of users for > whom the investment of learning Emacs would pay off? I don't really know the answer, but I'd like to remind all of us that there's a lot of "propaganda" out there telling everyone to turn off GUI features such as the menu bar and the tool bar. The network is full of personal init files that "proudly" do that, and forums like Reddit are full of such advice to every newbie who asks about configuring their Emacs. It is hard to be enthusiastic about making these features more modern when the community seems to be divided on whether they should at all be present. IMO, we should first get our act together and decide whether these features are important, and then speak up according to those decisions when we see advice to the contrary.