From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Interactive guide for new users Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 16:43:33 +0300 Message-ID: <83y2lfcdq2.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83lfhjkq0r.fsf@gnu.org> <8620B5CD-CA92-46BF-80A8-DBE7052F4CA6@gmail.com> <83d02re2uk.fsf@gnu.org> <838sdfdzxo.fsf@gnu.org> <20200912121603.bsp53vgfwj3y62in@Ergus> <831rj7dvhg.fsf@gnu.org> <20200912131802.fiowctrzc2yx4ozu@Ergus> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21138"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ghe@sdf.org, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 15:44:54 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kH5pm-0005O0-Gh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 15:44:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34100 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH5pl-0000EC-Gu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 09:44:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53222) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH5oW-0006kJ-9z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35692) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kH5oV-000813-Kg; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 09:43:35 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3770 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kH5oV-0007P7-2d; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 09:43:35 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20200912131802.fiowctrzc2yx4ozu@Ergus> (message from Ergus on Sat, 12 Sep 2020 15:18:02 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255345 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 15:18:02 +0200 > From: Ergus > Cc: ghe@sdf.org, casouri@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > >"Spirit" is not what's important here, IMO. What's important is the > >visual appearance and the available actions and their effects. What I > >see out there is similar to Company, and quite different from > >icomplete-mode, even when augmented by the vertical sub-mode. > > We have xref-find-apropos and completion-at-point. But icomplete use is > totally different to company. > > icomplete is more a minibuffer completion engine useful while tipping > commands, of lookign for files. There a company panel is uncomfortable. > > While company-mode is a "suggestion menu" while editing. Maybe our error > have been to consider both as a single "feature". We are miscommunicating. I said "similar to Company", meaning that the completion drops down a vertical list of candidates that overlays the rest of the display. AFAIK, no existing completion package offers something similar. So either we implement something similar (and offer it in that initial tour as an option), or we have to live with the fact that users will not find in Emacs completion that they expect to see. In the latter case, I wonder why icomplete is deemed a step in the right direction, for reasons I already described: it's too complicated and confusion, IMO.