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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: gregory@heytings.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Display of undisplayable characters: \U01F3A8 instead of diamond
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 19:26:39 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83y1v1oi80.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YxIrXAwmwwMP03vA@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Fri, 2 Sep 2022 16:12:12 +0000)

> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 16:12:12 +0000
> Cc: gregory@heytings.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
> 
> > It involves writing some Lisp code and running it on your system,
> > yes.  How is that a problem?
> 
> It's not a problem for me, but might well be for other Linux console
> users.

I'm not sure there are other users.

> It really needs documenting somewhere, which might well be more
> work than just supplying an option.

The display-tables are documented already.  And we use them in quite a
few situations already, including in latin1-disp.el.

> > How can Emacs know which characters does your Linux console actually
> > support, out of all the Unicode range?
> 
> The console supports ALL characters in the Unicode range.  Most of them
> it displays with the replacement character glyph

That's not what we call "support".

> > And how can Emacs know which ones of those you want to see as their
> > ASCII "emulations" (per latin1-disp.el) and which you want to see as
> > U+FFFD replacements?
> 
> It could examine the currently loaded font, if needed.

I'd welcome patches to do that, TIA.

> But I was more thinking about allowing the console itself to do the
> replacement with \ufffd.

There's no need to do that, since Emacs is capable of emitting that
character by itself.

> > So yes, this requires you, the user, to tell Emacs which ones you want
> > to see in what manner.  There are a lot of Unicode characters, so it
> > could be a large job, if the characters actually supported by the
> > console are all in distinct Unicode blocks.  (But if you only want to
> > see Latin-1 characters, I've shown in this thread a one-liner to do
> > that.  I guess you will reject that as well.)
> 
> Some of the characters in my font lie outside the Latin-1 range.  Doing
> this job properly requires writing some sort of script to examine the
> loaded font.  I don't know how easy that would be.

It's just a loop calling char-displayable-p, that's all.  What's left
is for you to examine the results.

> > Including, amazingly enough, a way to actually produce the same
> > "diamond" glyphs on display under the same circumstances.  Since when
> > do veteran Emacs hackers such as you and Richard consider some Lisp
> > coding a problem so grave as to justify flatly rejecting it?
> 
> It doesn't scale.  Without some sort of script, such as I suggested
> above, it has to be hacked individually for each setup.

Just once.  So its scaling is O(1).  Literally.

> > You _should_ expect problems.  And when solutions are pointed out that
> > are just a few lines of Lisp away, I'd expect you to embrace them, not
> > flatly reject them.
> 
> I would prefer a solution that would work for all Linux console users,
> including those who can't or don't want to hack Lisp.

For that, someone will have to figure out how to do that and submit
patches.  I don't know what else to suggest, since nothing seems to be
good enough.



  reply	other threads:[~2022-09-02 16:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 264+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-08-26  3:33 Display of undisplayable characters: \U01F3A8 instead of diamond Richard Stallman
2022-08-26  5:21 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-26  6:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-26  8:23   ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-26  8:45     ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-26  9:05     ` Yuri Khan
2022-08-26  9:11       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-26  9:28         ` Yuri Khan
2022-08-26  9:40           ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-26  9:47             ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-26  9:50               ` Yuri Khan
2022-08-26  9:54                 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-26  9:50             ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-28  4:04   ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-28  6:10     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-28  6:51       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-28  7:04         ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-28  7:09           ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-28  7:10           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-28  7:21             ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-26  6:52 ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2022-08-26  7:15   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-26  8:37     ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-26  8:52       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-26  9:24         ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-26  9:25         ` Andreas Schwab
2022-08-26  9:32           ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-26 17:41     ` Kévin Le Gouguec
2022-08-26 19:34       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-28  4:04     ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-28  5:32       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-26  9:58 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-26 10:11   ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-26 10:59     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-26 11:31       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-26 12:15         ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-26 12:56   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-08-26 13:29     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-28 10:35       ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-08-28 10:41         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-28 13:00           ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-28 14:18             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-28 14:44               ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-28 15:05                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-28 15:18                   ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-28 15:34                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-28 15:53                       ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-28 16:00                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-28 16:07                           ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-28 16:09                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-28 20:07                 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-29 11:03                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-29 18:48                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-28 15:39               ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-08-28 15:43                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-28 15:35             ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-08-28 15:37               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-28 15:46               ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-28 16:14                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-08-28 16:53                   ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-28 18:27                 ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-28 18:44                   ` Stefan Monnier
2022-08-28 18:45                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-08-28 20:09                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-28 20:37                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-08-28 20:09             ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-28 14:25           ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-08-28 14:59             ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-28 20:05           ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-29 10:58             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-29 11:26               ` Yuri Khan
2022-08-29 11:37                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-29 12:21                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-08-28 12:40         ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-26 21:45 ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-08-26 22:56   ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-27  7:12     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-27  7:22       ` Visuwesh
2022-08-27  9:11         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-27 10:43           ` Visuwesh
2022-08-28  4:04   ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-28  5:22     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-28 10:07       ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-08-28 10:29         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-28 11:07           ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-08-28 11:44             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-28 13:56               ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-08-27  5:44 ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-08-27  7:29   ` Andreas Schwab
2022-08-27  9:13     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-27 17:24       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-27 17:41         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-27 21:50           ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-28  2:15             ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-28  5:45             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-28  6:02               ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-27 17:22   ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-29  3:36   ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-29 13:00     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-30  4:12       ` Richard Stallman
2022-08-30 11:41         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-30 12:15           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-30 15:44         ` Gregory Heytings
2022-08-31  0:34           ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-31  2:35             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-31  3:00               ` Emanuel Berg
2022-08-31 11:00                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-01 23:32           ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-01 23:39             ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-01 23:49               ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-02  6:37             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-02 12:21               ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-09-02 12:36                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-02 12:39                 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-03  2:51                 ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-03  3:04                   ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-03  6:35                   ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-09-03  6:54                   ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-03  8:13                     ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-03  8:55                       ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-03  9:04                         ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-03  9:34                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-03  9:42                             ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-03  9:55                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-03 12:48                                 ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-09-08  2:56                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-08  7:16                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-08  9:14                               ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-09  3:03                                 ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-09  7:30                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-09  8:10                                     ` Po Lu
2022-09-09 10:08                                       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-09 10:13                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-09 10:25                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-09 11:11                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-09 11:04                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-09 10:13                                       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-09 11:10                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-09 10:52                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-10  1:42                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-09 11:18                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-09 13:47                                         ` Po Lu
2022-09-09 14:08                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-10 15:09                                             ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-09 14:15                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-10 15:01                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-10 14:56                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-09 10:09                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-03  9:17                     ` Yuri Khan
2022-09-03  9:28                       ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-03  9:36                         ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-03  9:31                       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-03  9:40                         ` Yuri Khan
2022-09-03  9:47                           ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-03 10:00                             ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-03 12:47                               ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-09-05  2:47                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-05  6:08                                   ` enum (was: Re: Display of undisplayable characters: \U01F3A8 instead of diamond) Emanuel Berg
2022-09-08  4:50                                     ` enum Emanuel Berg
2022-09-05  4:05                     ` Display of undisplayable characters: \U01F3A8 instead of diamond Richard Stallman
2022-09-05  4:51                       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-03  2:51               ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-02  7:28             ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-02 11:12               ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-09-02 11:29                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-02 13:39                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-09-02 13:44                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-02 13:59                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-02 16:12                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-09-02 16:26                         ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2022-09-03  5:27                           ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-09-03  8:15                             ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-03  8:29                               ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-05  4:05                                 ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-04 13:23                           ` Andreas Schwab
2022-09-02 19:19                         ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-03  2:51                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-03  6:44                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-04 11:23                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-09-04 13:01                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-05 18:59                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-09-06  4:15                                 ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-05  4:01                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-05  4:05                           ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-05  4:55                             ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-05 11:33                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-06  4:20                               ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-06 10:01                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-06 10:38                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-06 13:03                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-07  1:03                                       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-07  2:37                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-07  3:21                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-07 11:02                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-07 13:12                                               ` Yuri Khan
2022-09-07 13:34                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-07 13:58                                                   ` Yuri Khan
2022-09-07 14:20                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-07 15:48                                                       ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-09-07 16:48                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2022-09-07 17:02                                                           ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-09-08 12:26                                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-07 18:03                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-08 12:28                                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-08 12:24                                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-07 17:29                                                       ` Yuri Khan
2022-09-07 18:32                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-09  9:56                                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-09 11:01                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-10  4:41                                                               ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-10  6:33                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-10 15:19                                                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-10 15:40                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-10 15:55                                                                       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-10 17:18                                                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-20  1:09                                                                           ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-08 12:29                                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-08 12:14                                                       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-08  2:12                                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-08  1:32                                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-08  6:17                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-09  9:59                                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-09 11:02                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-10  6:49                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-07  2:19                               ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-07 13:21                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-03  2:51                     ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-03  3:09                       ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-03  6:36                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-06  4:13                         ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-06  4:18                           ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-08  2:56                             ` Richard Stallman
2022-09-02 11:39                 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-02 12:30                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-02 12:44                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-02 13:14                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-02 14:15                         ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-02 15:20                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-02 15:27                             ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-02 15:34                               ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-02 15:45                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-02 16:06                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-02 16:30                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-02 16:37                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-02 16:55                                       ` Andreas Schwab
2022-09-02 16:56                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-02 18:19                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-02 18:24                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-02 19:13                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-02 16:03                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-02 16:02                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-09-02 13:13                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-09-02 13:41                     ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-02 15:38                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2022-09-02 16:00                         ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-02 16:32                           ` Stefan Monnier
2022-09-02 16:55                         ` Yuri Khan
2022-09-03  5:35                         ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-09-03  5:49                           ` Jean Louis
2022-09-03  9:16                             ` Emanuel Berg
2022-09-03  6:46                           ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-02 11:47     ` Akib Azmain Turja
2022-09-02 12:07       ` Gregory Heytings
2022-09-02 12:45       ` Eli Zaretskii

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