From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 12:21:28 +0300 Message-ID: <83wq8357mv.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87d2ahm3nw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <871tqneyvl.fsf@netris.org> <87zjd9swfj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87oatnqpml.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <874mvdrj45.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20141009044917.GA19957@fencepost.gnu.org> <83lhopisfr.fsf@gnu.org> <87ppe1pldu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <8761ft5wpo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83k349b0vj.fsf@gnu.org> <83bnph96kh.fsf@gnu.org> <87ppdwo7ll.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <543BE7CB.9040801@cs.ucla.edu> <87egubopls.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87bnpfyjaf.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87a94zoo57.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83h9z77p7d.fsf@gnu.org> <8761fnnne9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <831tqb6qt7.fsf@gnu.org> <87zjczm4m9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1413278530 17460 80.91.229.3 (14 Oct 2014 09:22:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:22:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dak@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 14 11:22:03 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XdyIr-0000Ji-1f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 11:22:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37318 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XdyIq-00074t-LM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 05:22:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40903) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XdyIa-00074m-2L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 05:21:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XdyIU-000336-TB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 05:21:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout24.012.net.il ([80.179.55.180]:43775) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XdyIP-00032d-1Y; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 05:21:33 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout24.012.net.il by mtaout24.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NDF00C00G9C1J00@mtaout24.012.net.il>; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 12:15:11 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout24.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NDF0007LGDBJGB0@mtaout24.012.net.il>; Tue, 14 Oct 2014 12:15:11 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <87zjczm4m9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.180 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:175346 Archived-At: > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" > Cc: dak@gnu.org, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:34:38 +0900 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > > > That's not true: we try using UTF-8 wherever possible. The few files > > > > that don't use that simply cannot. > > > > > > That doesn't seem to be true. In fact many of the encodings > > > discovered by "grep -r -e '-\\*- coding:" are ISO 2022 conformant, and > > > a few indeed appear to be EUC encodings under an alias (eg, > > > chinese-iso-8bit-unix). AFAICS, the only encodings listed that can't > > > be encoded in UTF-8 are the Big 5 family -- and that's only if you > > > demand bug-compatibility.[1] > > > > First, you missed the file-local variables (the pattern you used with > > Grep will only find the cookies on the first line). > > So? That's not a bug, since I only need to show existence of files > that use coding systems that *could* be translated to UTF-8 but > weren't. My original statement was that we try using UTF-8 "whenever possible". I didn't define "possible", but the discussion to which I pointed has the necessary details for that. I also said that the non-UTF-8 files are a minority; for that, counting the UTF-8 encoded files without missing any, no matter how their encoding is determined, is important. > > Btw, to find out how many of our files are in UTF-8 and how many > > aren't, I would suggest to use tools that can explicitly tell the > > encoding, rather than rely on Grep and on whatever you remember are > > the ways of specifying a file's encoding. > > Sure, but it's ironic that *you* are saying that to *me*, when you're > on the side saying that if you get the wrong encoding somehow you want > rawbytes. Shouldn't you use tools that can explicitly tell you the > encoding? ;-) Irrelevant. The issue to which you responded was whether the majority of files in the Emacs repository use a certain encoding, which would thus constitute a kind of "de-facto locale" for Emacs files.