From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: progmodes/project.el and search paths Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2015 19:31:09 +0300 Message-ID: <83wpx9snn6.fsf@gnu.org> References: <55BE209F.1000009@siege-engine.com> <55BE509B.2080307@yandex.ru> <87r3nkjxby.fsf@isaac.fritz.box> <55BF7619.1050701@yandex.ru> <87mvy8jvlh.fsf@isaac.fritz.box> <55BF8522.4010009@yandex.ru> <87lhdsys13.fsf@isaac.fritz.box> <55BFF764.2030002@yandex.ru> <83mvy7tbit.fsf@gnu.org> <55C0FEEB.7040500@yandex.ru> <83h9oeudfs.fsf@gnu.org> <55C1074E.90103@yandex.ru> <83d1z2uach.fsf@gnu.org> <55C11D54.9090105@yandex.ru> <83bnemtpop.fsf@gnu.org> <86io8ucl69.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <83614tu625.fsf@gnu.org> <55C22D68.3050306@yandex.ru> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1438792302 17202 80.91.229.3 (5 Aug 2015 16:31:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 16:31:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 05 18:31:33 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZN1bE-0002SG-4a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 18:31:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41199 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZN1bD-0001VS-65 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 12:31:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33202) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZN1b9-0001V4-At for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 12:31:24 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZN1b5-0003Xb-AL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 12:31:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]:54824) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZN1b5-0003XI-31 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 12:31:19 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NSM00900AWYZL00@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 19:31:17 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NSM009WCB85VU90@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 19:31:17 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <55C22D68.3050306@yandex.ru> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:188452 Archived-At: > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Dmitry Gutov > Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 18:36:08 +0300 > > On 08/05/2015 06:08 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > If EDE finds this useful, what doubt is there that other Lisp programs > > will? How many examples do we need before we decide that a specific > > trait of a project is "useful"? I say one is enough (sometimes more > > than enough). > > A trait should be useful *and* fairly common. It's common, just look at any IDE out there. > Do you see someone in a hurry to rewrite EDE on top of project.el? I > don't. So we have zero potential consumers so far. Like I said, I consider this kind of arguments irrelevant for developing infrastructure. Either it's important to develop infrastructure for accessing project traits, or it isn't. If it is (and I gather you decided it is), then the infrastructure should IMO be reasonably complete. > >> Short of that, I can't think of a non-EDE elisp program that would want > >> to know about targets. There might be one someday; we can extend > >> project.el then. > > > > That's exactly my problem: I find such an approach surprising, to say > > the least, when building such basic infrastructure. > > On the other hand, it wastes less time on speculative features, and the > API is almost guaranteed to turn out better in the end. Not IME. What I saw more than once is unfinished infrastructure that no one wanted to continue developing, because the person(s) who started moved on without arriving at some reasonably complete component. > > I think there > > should be small doubt that access to project documentation, including > > its build command, is one of these basics, because every project has > > that. > > I don't even know what "access to project documentation" means. Is it > just the build command? Or the paths of resulting files? Or their > formats? Or an index? Or a way to display them? There are a lot of IDEs out there to learn from and get answers to all these questions very quickly. IME, doing that kind of research is always part of any infrastructure development. It sounds like you would prefer waiting till someone comes up and teaches you/us all these answers, or presents clear requirements that allow you to formulate those answers, but IME that seldom happens, because people who already went through that research, or gained the answers from personal experience, are a few and far in-between, and they are unlikely to line up to help us, of all the projects. I went through such an experience myself years ago, when I started to work on bidirectional display. Anyway, I think my views on this are clear, so I think it's time for me to stop arguing about this.