From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs 25.0.04: Feature Request: Make called-interactively-p's argument optional Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2016 17:48:16 +0300 Message-ID: <83wpkyn7pr.fsf@gnu.org> References: <2f8dfb88-8174-fa42-efd3-542605c881fd@yandex.ru> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1467817298 9231 80.91.229.3 (6 Jul 2016 15:01:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 15:01:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: John Wiegley , Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 06 17:01:23 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bKoKI-0002C7-Dd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 17:01:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34034 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKoKE-0006Rc-BK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 11:01:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47526) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKo7x-00072G-RP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 10:48:38 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKo7s-00006J-2t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 10:48:36 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:35137) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKo7r-00006E-Vb; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 10:48:32 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4405 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bKo7q-00060l-UJ; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 10:48:31 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from John Wiegley on Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:31:26 -0700) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:205255 Archived-At: > From: John Wiegley > Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:31:26 -0700 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > >>>>> Dmitry Gutov writes: > > > As the docstring explains, the function in question should be used rarely, > > if at all. It should follow that the verbosity of its calling convention > > can't be a significant problem. > > If this is the case, I'm curious why this is an issue at all then. Bob, is > really a problem that needs addressing, or is it just for infrequent > convenience? If it's only the latter, let's leave this sleeping dog to lie. IMO, if we want to make a rational decision that would make sense to most everybody, we need first to define the problem. After reading this and past discussions, I'm still not sure what the problem(s) is/are. What's more, I'm not sure anyone else here understands the actual problem(s) being brought up. Large portions of the discussions seem to be based on distant experiences, which I'm not sure is relevant nowadays, and the problems are described very vaguely. A couple of times that an actual problem was reported (e.g., bug#21083), it was promptly fixed, but I don't see any updated reports after it was fixed, it seems people are still claiming the same claims regardless of the fix. So: what exactly is the problem? Is it a convenience issue, or are there some real problems in the recommended replacements for 'interactive-p' (such as 'called-interactively-p')? Do we have reproducible recipes for the problems the recommended practices allegedly have? If so, would someone please present these recipes with the current versions of Emacs, preferably as bug reports? I'd also ask Stefan to please summarize the reasons for deprecating 'interactive-p' and describe its recommended substitutes for the popular use cases. Armed with that knowledge, we can hopefully proceed with the subject: fix the bugs, clarify the documentation, and make the decision whether the recommended practices are viable or need some changes.