From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Summary and next steps for (package-initialize) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:31:33 +0300 Message-ID: <83wp5xat6i.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83tw12cocz.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1503325982 8287 195.159.176.226 (21 Aug 2017 14:33:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:33:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 21 16:32:54 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1djnl5-0001c7-8Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 16:32:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49983 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djnlA-0006Yy-DC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:32:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33191) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djnjz-0006Sj-UF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:31:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djnjw-0007sU-M5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:31:43 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:56871) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1djnjw-0007sL-J0; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:31:40 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1490 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1djnjv-0003b1-SL; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:31:40 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Mon, 21 Aug 2017 05:04:58 -0400) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217654 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 05:04:58 -0400 > > > I think we should instead explore the possibility that > > package-initialize will be called only in startup.el. > > I think this is unlikely to work well. As I said, we should explore this in more detail, and have a detailed and agreed-upon list of reasons why it's not TRT. Doing this kind of stuff in startup.el is quite standard and natural. If we don't analyze this possibility and have the data and conclusions on file, this possibility will continue to pop up, and we potentially could miss an opportunity to provide a robust and much less annoying solution than what we have now. So if you can elaborate the "unlikely" part, please do. > - call package-initialize before reading ~/.emacs (this will require > finding some way to handle the case where the user wants to change > package.el's configuration in his .emacs). > - call package-initialize automatically when needed, by having a more > declarative way to configure packages in ~/.emacs. > > The first approach looks easier from where I sit, but that's just > a gut feeling. This is hard to interpret without knowing "where you sit".