From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 15:14:26 +0300 Message-ID: <83worjf1el.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm> <770f48a8-664a-40ae-8e03-19f6aad248b6@default> <20180910181615.GA4829@ACM> <874lev3bq4.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180912131602.GA5582@ACM> <87d0tihxzw.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180913174640.GB4019@ACM> <8736udkuit.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180914104833.GA4103@ACM> <83k1nojgia.fsf@gnu.org> <874leq799e.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <205df9be-2e5c-4cc4-a13a-7c80eb63bedc@default> <87in363zgq.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87a7oh4mdm.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <831s9tidjc.fsf@gnu.org> <87r2hs15fv.fsf@toy.adminart.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1537272838 22789 195.159.176.226 (18 Sep 2018 12:13:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 12:13:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, joostkremers@fastmail.fm, npostavs@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, yurivkhan@gmail.com, acm@muc.de, drew.adams@oracle.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: hw Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 18 14:13:53 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g2Et7-0005lZ-0j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 14:13:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40063 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2EvD-0008R5-J2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:16:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45428) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2Ev5-0008Qp-50 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:15:55 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2Ev4-0000AI-C6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:15:55 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:43388) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2Etv-0007YE-6C; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:14:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3073 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1g2Ett-0003W0-Dz; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:14:43 -0400 In-reply-to: <87r2hs15fv.fsf@toy.adminart.net> (message from hw on Mon, 17 Sep 2018 23:22:04 +0200) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229936 Archived-At: > From: hw > Cc: spacibba@aol.com, joostkremers@fastmail.fm, npostavs@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, yurivkhan@gmail.com, acm@muc.de, drew.adams@oracle.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk > Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 23:22:04 +0200 > > >> Emacs has point and (the end of) the region (selection) always entangled > >> with no way to separate them or to disable the region. That is what I > >> dislike so much, and it causes all kinds of issues. > > > > It is also why it is so convenient to define the region without using > > the mouse. With the current way of defining region, you just go to > > the other end, and you are immediately ready to invoke commands that > > operate on the region. How do you do that if point is not on one of > > the edges of the region, except by dragging the mouse? > > Commands limited to the selection can work with the selection without a > need to even have the selection displayed on screen. I don't see how this is relevant to the aspect of the Emacs region to which I was referring. > If you want to start making a selection where the cursor currently is, > simply use the key binding to set a marker. Otherwise, navigate to > where you want to set the marker first. You can use a trackball or not, > it's unrelated. How is this different from what we have now? > To be able to go to the other end of the selection, you first have to > make one. That's why Emacs has a lot of commands that mark significant portions of text: word, sentence, paragraph, sexp, etc. Emacs also has a matching set of cursor motion commands. It makes all of that easy. > There is no going to "the other end" of a region before a > selection has been made, and once one has been made, there is no need to > do that in order to do something with the selection Emacs does that the other way around, but the result is no less convenient and efficient.