From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 16:29:59 +0300 Message-ID: <83wo6biox4.fsf@gnu.org> References: <863691n4xl.wl-me@enzu.ru> <86blno9yle.wl-me@enzu.ru> <87d0845msg.fsf@yahoo.com> <87h7xgjasw.fsf@yahoo.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="126732"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: me@enzu.ru, joseph.h.garvin@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org, luangruo@yahoo.com, drew.adams@oracle.com To: ndame Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 19 15:31:19 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jQA2X-000Wqs-HH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 15:31:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41848 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQA2W-0002tu-Iu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 09:31:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55290) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQA1f-0002N5-AI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 09:30:23 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51530) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQA1d-0007ua-5N; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 09:30:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2963 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jQA1O-0006go-MD; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 09:30:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from ndame on Sun, 19 Apr 2020 06:52:03 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247313 Archived-At: > Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 06:52:03 +0000 > From: ndame > Cc: Ahmed Khanzada , Stefan Kangas , > Joseph Garvin , Richard Stallman , > Emacs developers , Eli Zaretskii , > Drew Adams > > For example, the current tutorial may not be the best > approach. Explaining about cursor movement with C-f and C-b? Windows > and frames? > > Why a new user who casually wants to try emacs has to start with this? > > A new user can use the cursor keys and the mouse to operate the > menus. Rather than focusing on strange keys for cursor movement a > better approach could be explaining what emacs does better than other > tools and how to use those features. When did you last look at the tutorial that comes with Emacs? We mention the cursor keys there since Emacs 22.1. We mention PageUp/PageDown since Emacs 23.1. > And users could be informed on the startup screen that they can learn > traditional emacs keys in a separate tutorial if they are interested. We think using C-f/C-b etc. keys will help users type more efficiently, and we say so in the tutorial, _after_ saying that the "normal" cursor motion keys also work. I see nothing wrong with that.