From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: message-mode is now default? Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:40:38 +0300 Message-ID: <83vdlqp0rt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <878wimdbzp.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87tz1av8ik.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1247924484 14901 80.91.229.12 (18 Jul 2009 13:41:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:41:24 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 18 15:41:17 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MSAA9-0005VS-Ct for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:41:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52675 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MSAA8-0007Cv-Rn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:41:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MSA9Z-0006xI-Li for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:40:41 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MSA9Y-0006wr-Te for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:40:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=52725 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MSA9Y-0006wl-MU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:40:40 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout7.012.net.il ([84.95.2.19]:46944) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MSA9Y-0006lX-15 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:40:40 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.i-mtaout7.012.net.il by i-mtaout7.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0KMZ00700C56Q400@i-mtaout7.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:40:38 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.70.207.26]) by i-mtaout7.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0KMZ00LX8CNPAU80@i-mtaout7.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:40:38 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <87tz1av8ik.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (1203?) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112674 Archived-At: > From: Bastien > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 07:51:12 +0200 > Cc: ams@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > Any problems with message-mode should be fixed, of course, but it's > > pretty clear that it's a better default. > > So why not making message-mode the default when those problems are > fixed? Making message-mode the default is not a problem for people > who already use it, it is a problem for people who are not using it. > So making things smoother for these people is a good idea IMHO. I had a few spare moments, so I compared mail-mode and message-mode. The differences I found are below. Disclaimers: Please note that I don't necessarily think all of them should be changed to match mail-mode, in order for message-mode to be compatible. But I do think they all need to be _considered_. I also don't pretend to have found all the important differences, nor that all my conclusions below are correct. Finally, what's below is based on inspection of the *Help* buffer and defcustoms; I didn't actually try using message-mode, and don't know anything about it, except what I saw just now. Here's what I found: . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-f moves to FCC; in message-mode C-c C-f C-f moves to Followup-To, and C-c C-f C-w moves to FCC. . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-a moves to Mail-Reply-To; in message-mode C-c C-f C-a runs the command `message-generate-unsubscribed-mail-followup-to' and there doesn't seem to be a command to move to Mail-Reply-To. . In mail-mode C-c C-f C-l moves to Mail-Followup-To; in message-mode C-c C-f C-m moves to Mail-Followup-To and C-c C-f C-l is undefined . In mail-mode C-c C-t moves to message text; in message-mode this is on C-c C-b, while C-c C-t runs `message-insert-to'. . In mail-mode C-c C-v runs `mail-sent-via'; in message-mode it runs `message-delete-not-region'. . mail-mode runs `text-mode-hook' and `mail-mode-hook'; message-mode says it runs `message-mode-hook' "in addition to any hooks its parent mode `text-mode' might have run" -- it isn't clear to me if these two are compatible wrt what text-mode does. . message-mode overrides the following global key bindings: - C-a runs `message-beginning-of-line' - TAB runs `message-tab' - M-; runs `comment-region' . message-mode's default value of `message-generate-new-buffers' seems to generate buffer names in a way that is different from what mail-mode does. . message-mode's default value of `message-fill-column' overrides the global value of `fill-column'. . mail-mode uses `mail-setup-hook'; message-mode uses `message-setup-hook'. . mail-mode uses `mail-yank-hooks'; message-mode doesn't appear to have such a facility. . message-mode's default value of `message-citation-line-format' seems to produce different results compared to what `r' in Rmail produces. . message-mode's default values of `message-yank-cited-prefix' and `message-yank-empty-prefix' are different from the results produced by the default value of `mail-yank-prefix', and the names of the options are also different. . message-mode's default value of `message-signature' is different from mail-mode's `mail-signature', and the names of the options are different. . mail-mode uses `mail-signature-file'; message-mode uses `message-signature-file'. . mail-mode uses `mail-default-directory' for auto-saving mail buffers; message-mode uses `message-auto-save-directory', and the default values are also different. . mail-mode uses `mail-mode-syntax-table'; message-mode uses `message-mode-syntax-table. The default values are also different. . mail-mode uses `mail-send-hook'; message-mode uses `message-send-mail-hook' and `message-send-hook'. . mail-mode's `mail-bury' tries to show the Rmail buffer if `mail-bury-selects-summary' is non-nil. message-mode's `message-bury' doesn't seem to have a comparable feature. (This is important when reading mail on a text terminal.) . message-mode doesn't seem to have an equivalent of `mail-use-dsn'. HTH