From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: transient Date: Sat, 02 May 2020 20:17:07 +0300 Message-ID: <83v9leqmss.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87368npxw4.fsf@bernoul.li> <87v9ljo5d0.fsf@bernoul.li> <87ftcnxu5m.fsf@bernoul.li> <83y2qezlpd.fsf@gnu.org> <83tv12zjx1.fsf@gnu.org> <20200429101755.GF24737@tuxteam.de> <838sicw4do.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhaqu89z.fsf@gnu.org> <83sggiu2p9.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1w2s9wi.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="93787"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 02 19:21:12 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jUvpA-000OGY-RG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 19:21:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35360 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUvp9-0001Bp-TT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 13:21:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36252) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUvlU-0007sv-5I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 13:20:13 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34414) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUvlT-0004ea-LS; Sat, 02 May 2020 13:17:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3337 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1jUvlM-00020b-JN; Sat, 02 May 2020 13:17:16 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sat, 02 May 2020 12:48:33 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248507 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: philippe.vaucher@gmail.com, tomas@tuxteam.de, rms@gnu.org, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sat, 02 May 2020 12:48:33 -0400 > > >> Typical examples: is it `multibyte-string-p` or `string-multibyte-p`, > >> `file-name-absolute-p` or `absolute-file-name-p`, ... ? > > Then "C-u C-h a WORDS..." is your friend. > > Nope, way too slow. Is that the only problem? then let's speed it up, and Bob's our uncle. > I shouldn't have to do anything more than `str-mul TAB`. If you remembered the function's name, yes. But that's not the use case we are discussing here. > >> Yes, we can try and improve completion, but we have a real underlying > >> problem of irregular naming and completion would just help us paper > >> over it. > > The command "C-u C-h d regexp RET" brings up 111 matching functions. > > Who will have patience looking through that list, unless the likely > > candidates are near the beginning? > > IIUC that means you agree with my argument? Of course not! I'm saying that "regular naming" will increase the length of the candidate list. > > I don't object to this. I'm just saying that the hope this will allow > > you to quickly find that-function-you-almost-remember-the-name-of are > > overly optimistic. > > We impose a prefix convention on the rest of the Elisp world, and while > some authors don't like it, I find that it is not just useful much more > generally than to avoid conflicts, so we should try and use it for > Emacs's core as well. The prefix convention we impose has almost nothing to do with the issue at hand, because the package's name in many (most?) cases says nothing about its domain of application. E.g., take message.el or tmm.el or windmove.el or tempo.el or xdg.el, to name just a few random examples. > It's not a new opinion, BTW: I started doing that back in Emacs-21 with > the newcomment.el package which tried to stick to the "comment-" prefix > even for things which previously used a different name. Beginner's luck. Occasionally, this could just happen to work, when the package's name happens to say something about its purpose. But mostly it doesn't, as packages like the one whose name is in the Subject clearly demonstrate.