From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 09:12:29 +0300 Message-ID: <83v9gjed6a.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20200910231420.kvqg6ohvxetpup5c@Ergus> <83zh5whl5p.fsf@gnu.org> <83mu1whac7.fsf@gnu.org> <83imckh9yt.fsf@gnu.org> <83ft7oh63h.fsf@gnu.org> <20200911121919.5oljwsot4g3bm7zq@Ergus> <83a6xwh4o3.fsf@gnu.org> <20200911125744.x7at74mr4dyrcktf@Ergus> <83zh5wfor3.fsf@gnu.org> <92d20285-2141-2ef3-da09-432aeb3ecec4@yandex.ru> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36099"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rekado@elephly.net, ghe@sdf.org, spacibba@aol.com, drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 08:13:22 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kGymn-0009Hg-SK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 08:13:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58784 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGymm-00085D-VK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 02:13:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52040) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGym2-0007f4-OC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 02:12:36 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58275) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGym1-0002l0-Ho; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 02:12:33 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=2933 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kGylz-0002IV-TD; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 02:12:32 -0400 In-Reply-To: <92d20285-2141-2ef3-da09-432aeb3ecec4@yandex.ru> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Sat, 12 Sep 2020 00:00:48 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255271 Archived-At: > Cc: rekado@elephly.net, ghe@sdf.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, > drew.adams@oracle.com > From: Dmitry Gutov > Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 00:00:48 +0300 > > > As long as we keep this on the menu and the tool bar, there will be no > > reason for a "war". > > So there will be contradiction between the menu and the keyboard? Yes. We already have quite a few of them, so one or two more cannot hurt. > > How can it be confusing that 2 different commands produce different > > results? Why isn't it confusing today, when we already have these 2 > > commands? > > The menu item doesn't exactly say which command it is invoking. It does, if you invoke "C-h k". If you don't ask Emacs what the menu item invokes, then the text of the menu item and the help-echo string are the only description you get, and that is so for all the other menu items. So there's nothing new here. > So I think that statement is missing the point: we should endeavor for > predictable and consistent sets of menu items, key bindings, and other > features. I agree, but the criteria for "predictable and consistent" might be something other than "make the keybindings and menus invoke identical commands". Because if that's the criteria, we are already in violation of them.