From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Recentish C-s M-y change Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2020 16:30:05 +0200 Message-ID: <83v9cigiaa.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87r1na4tyu.fsf@gnus.org> <87tus6tj7s.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87a6txigm1.fsf@gnus.org> <874kk5lzew.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87eej8ifll.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87h7o3k5b5.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25842"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, juri@linkov.net, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Alfred M. Szmidt" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 31 15:31:26 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kuyz7-0006W8-Jk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 15:31:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38204 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuyz6-0004Pn-Lo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 09:31:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45884) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuyyK-0003qQ-6v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 09:30:36 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:50734) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kuyyJ-00062H-DC; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 09:30:35 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2392 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kuyy8-0000Yq-Qk; Thu, 31 Dec 2020 09:30:25 -0500 In-Reply-To: (ams@gnu.org) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:262161 Archived-At: > From: "Alfred M. Szmidt" > Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2020 05:44:38 -0500 > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@linkov.net > > why are these things changed without doing some rudimentary query of > users? It is unreasonable to expect us to conduct a user survey before every behavior change. It would make an impossible obstacle to any such development in Emacs. We also don't have any practical way of asking a large sample of typical users and getting answers quickly. We trust our developers that they keep the UX aspects in mind, and bring issues to discussions here when they see the need. Sometimes a developer might think a change in behavior is a no-brainer, whereas in fact it isn't; in that case complaining about the problematic change is exactly the right way of fixing the problem, better later than never. So I suggest that we focus on fixing the change so it leaves everyone happy, instead of developing impractical expectations from the process of Emacs development.