From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: /srv/bzr/emacs/trunk r101338: * lisp/emacs-lisp/syntax.el (syntax-ppss): More sanity check to catch Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 20:30:36 +0200 Message-ID: <83txc1bl83.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87r47bi1e5.fsf@yandex.ru> <52F96284.50507@yandex.ru> <52FAE12B.6060101@yandex.ru> <52FC3BEE.60604@yandex.ru> <52FCD2B4.5080006@yandex.ru> <52FD9F1D.50205@yandex.ru> <83mwhucg1h.fsf@gnu.org> <878ute589i.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83d2iqc84m.fsf@gnu.org> <87wqgxkcr9.fsf@yandex.ru> <834n41db0d.fsf@gnu.org> <52FE2985.4070703@yandex.ru> <831tz5daes.fsf@gnu.org> <8738jlohd6.fsf@yandex.ru> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1392402687 27353 80.91.229.3 (14 Feb 2014 18:31:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 18:31:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dak@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 14 19:31:34 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WENXs-0000Yl-NC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 19:31:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53302 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WENXs-0005IH-AW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:31:28 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48827) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WENXk-0005HP-7T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:31:25 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WENXe-0007JY-Sb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:31:20 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout28.012.net.il ([80.179.55.184]:49587) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WENXY-0007It-UH; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:31:09 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout28.012.net.il by mtaout28.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0N10006000Q47K00@mtaout28.012.net.il>; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 20:32:00 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout28.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0N1000LAE0SKYQA0@mtaout28.012.net.il>; Fri, 14 Feb 2014 20:32:00 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <8738jlohd6.fsf@yandex.ru> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.184 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:169628 Archived-At: > From: Dmitry Gutov > Cc: dak@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 17:15:33 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> The need to "come up, design and implement" these things has been there > >> for many years now. Unless things start moving in that direction > >> step-by-step, I'm not confident anything "proper" will happen at all. > > > > Nothing will start moving unless Someone(TM) will move things. > > I'd expect each participant in the discussion to be willing to implement > things they discuss that are within their area of expertise. E.g. Stefan > to at least add that hook and modify the syntax-ppss caching behavior. I think your expectations are a bit exaggerated. You cannot possibly expect of anyone who offers some idea to implement it. People implement ideas because they have an itch to scratch, not because they just had the idea. > > I hope > > volunteers will eventually come and do that, or else Emacs will > > continue to be what it is today. My chiming into this thread was in > > the hope that what I say will inspire someone. > > I really don't do C, and learning it just to contribute to Emacs seems > like a major undertaking. First, C is a really simple language, and compilers nowadays are good at diagnosing mistakes. But even if you decide not to go that way, there are a lot of place to contribute to the design and the Lisp portions of the implementation. Even just formulating the requirements is a huge step forward, IMO. > Likewise, I'm seeing a surge of users interested in writing Emacs Lisp. > Less of that in the Emacs core, but hopefully the transition will come, > too. > > Why there aren't many new contributors capable and interested in > implementing new features at the C level, your guess is as good as mine > (probably better). Actually, I don't see many new contributors that do it in Lisp, either. Sure, there's a lot of code being committed every day, but awfully few features that really advance forward Emacs as the programming environment. E.g., witness the lack of any significant progress in adding IDE features.