why was iso-acc.el removed from master?

why was iso-acc.el removed from master?

[Uwe Brauer]

Hi

I just run a git pull, and saw that iso-acc.el got removed.

Now I still posses old files, which contains text such as
naci'on, which I can convert to nación thanks to the function
iso-accentuate.

Why is this feature removed?

Regards

Uwe Brauer 

Re: why was iso-acc.el removed from master?

[Paul Eggert]

On 03/10/2016 09:20 AM, Uwe Brauer wrote:
> Why is this feature removed?
'git log -- lisp/obsolete/iso-acc.el' points at commit 
b1713476022b5cac430457efc226fccf8fb38e91.

Re: why was iso-acc.el removed from master?

[Uwe Brauer]

>>> "Paul" == Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu> writes:

   > On 03/10/2016 09:20 AM, Uwe Brauer wrote:
   >> Why is this feature removed?
   > 'git log -- lisp/obsolete/iso-acc.el' points at commit b1713476022b5cac430457efc226fccf8fb38e91.


Thanks I found the log entry.

Is there a change to talk this decision out and reverse the deletion?

Uwe Brauer 

Re: why was iso-acc.el removed from master?

[Paul Eggert]

On 03/10/2016 09:35 AM, Uwe Brauer wrote:
> Is there a change to talk this decision out and reverse the deletion?

I don't recall the decision, alas. You might try to bring us up to speed 
on the situation.

Re: why was iso-acc.el removed from master?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
> Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 09:42:08 -0800
> 
> On 03/10/2016 09:35 AM, Uwe Brauer wrote:
> > Is there a change to talk this decision out and reverse the deletion?
> 
> I don't recall the decision, alas.

It's cited in the commit log message.

Re: why was iso-acc.el removed from master?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es>
> Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 17:20:45 +0000
> 
> I just run a git pull, and saw that iso-acc.el got removed.

What are you using it for?

Re: why was iso-acc.el removed from master?

[Uwe Brauer]

   > What are you using it for?

Two situations:

    -  iso-accentuate: old latex files (latex 209) which contain either
       naci'on or da"s which at that time worked (but today it does
       not). So the easiest solution is to call iso-accentuate to
       convert it to nación and daß.

    -  iso-deaccentuate: given a huge list of Spanish family names which
       contain ñ ó etc, and from which I want to generate directories.
       So the easiest way for me to deal with it is to run
       iso-deaccentuate (not iso-unaccentuate which would result in ~n).

No maybe I missed it, but I don't know of any other program doing that.

Re: why was iso-acc.el removed from master?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es>
> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 08:50:25 +0000
> 
>    > What are you using it for?
> 
> Two situations:
> 
>     -  iso-accentuate: old latex files (latex 209) which contain either
>        naci'on or da"s which at that time worked (but today it does
>        not). So the easiest solution is to call iso-accentuate to
>        convert it to nación and daß.
> 
>     -  iso-deaccentuate: given a huge list of Spanish family names which
>        contain ñ ó etc, and from which I want to generate directories.
>        So the easiest way for me to deal with it is to run
>        iso-deaccentuate (not iso-unaccentuate which would result in ~n).

If these are the only ones you need, it should be easy to have them
without all the rest of the baggage in iso-acc.el.

Btw, for the 2nd part above, doesn't sorting with string-collate-lessp
as the predicate solve the problem in a more clean manner?

Btw2, iso-acc.el was only removed from master, it still exists on the
emacs-25 branch.

Re: why was iso-acc.el removed from master?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es>
> Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2016 17:20:45 +0000
> 
> I just run a git pull, and saw that iso-acc.el got removed.

What are you using it for?

> Why is this feature removed?

See b1713476022b5cac430457efc226fccf8fb38e91.

Re: why was iso-acc.el removed from master?

[John Wiegley]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 842 bytes --]

>>>>> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> I just run a git pull, and saw that iso-acc.el got removed.

> Why is this feature removed?

Hi Uwe,

We had a lengthy discussion on this list about when to deprecate modules, and
when to remove old ones, so that we can cease maintaining them, and close out
any bugs pertaining to them.

At the time, no one cried out for iso-acc.el to be kept.

My preferred method for restoring this behavior now would be for you to become
its maintainer in the form of a GNU ELPA package. Or, if you have an argument
as to why it should not be deleted from Emacs -- aside from the fact that you
yourself rely on it -- please let me know.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 629 bytes --]

Re: why was iso-acc.el removed from master?

[Uwe Brauer]

>>> "John" == John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com> writes:

Hi John,


   >>>>>> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:
   >> I just run a git pull, and saw that iso-acc.el got removed.

   >> Why is this feature removed?

   > Hi Uwe,

   > We had a lengthy discussion on this list about when to deprecate
   > modules, and when to remove old ones, so that we can cease
   > maintaining them, and close out any bugs pertaining to them.

   > At the time, no one cried out for iso-acc.el to be kept.


That is one of the reasons for me to hang around here: to catch up such
discussions, but I must have missed it. Do you remember when it was
approximately?


   > My preferred method for restoring this behavior now would be for
   > you to become its maintainer in the form of a GNU ELPA package. Or,
   > if you have an argument as to why it should not be deleted from
   > Emacs -- aside from the fact that you yourself rely on it -- please
   > let me know.

Ok, this is fair enough, but I confess I use iso-accentuate, but I
actually do not understand much of it, I do understand more or less
iso-accentuate and  iso-deaccentuate but not the rest.

Eli just asked me what I need it for and I replied. So of course if
there were other solutions to my problem, this discussion would be
finished.

In case there are not and I would agree to be the maintainer, I then
have to sign FSF copyright? Could I do that by email (scanned signed
document)?

BTW since we are now in the 21 century, is there any change that one
could simply signed these papers by a pgp/smime key or are US courts not
that modern :'(

Uwe 

Re: why was iso-acc.el removed from master?

[Stefan Monnier]

> In case there are not and I would agree to be the maintainer, I then
> have to sign FSF copyright? Could I do that by email (scanned signed
> document)?
> BTW since we are now in the 21 century, is there any change that one
> could simply signed these papers by a pgp/smime key or are US courts not
> that modern :'(

The exact method required depends on details such as where you reside.
AFAIK if you reside in the US, nowadays the process can be "fully
electronic", tho IIUC this means "scanned signed documents".

I don't know where we're at when it comes to other countries, tho.


        Stefan

Re: why was iso-acc.el removed from master?

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> Uwe Brauer <oub@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> That is one of the reasons for me to hang around here: to catch up such
> discussions, but I must have missed it. Do you remember when it was
> approximately?

Sure, it was here, and happened in January 2016:

    http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/198007

> In case there are not and I would agree to be the maintainer, I then have to
> sign FSF copyright? Could I do that by email (scanned signed document)?

Yes, simply send an e-mail to assign@gnu.org, and they'll get you started on
the process.

> BTW since we are now in the 21 century, is there any change that one could
> simply signed these papers by a pgp/smime key or are US courts not that
> modern :'(

You can ask about more efficient processes from the FSF at the above e-mail
address; I'm not sure exactly what liberties they can allow.  It's hard to
rely on a PGP key that you haven't verified either in person, or through a
highly trusted chain of signatures.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2