From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2020 17:56:31 +0200 Message-ID: <83tuscplcg.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> <877dpjp30g.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <87zh2fnmwq.fsf@gnus.org> <87o8ivumn5.fsf@telefonica.net> <87v9d3nkxk.fsf@gnus.org> <83k0t9rfj5.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="721"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ghe@sdf.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Arthur Miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 23 16:57:47 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ks6WJ-000AOz-Ph for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 23 Dec 2020 16:57:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48984 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ks6WI-0003C7-Rk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 23 Dec 2020 10:57:46 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56682) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ks6VV-0002iu-21 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Dec 2020 10:56:58 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51948) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ks6VQ-0002Ud-EX; Wed, 23 Dec 2020 10:56:54 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4073 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ks6VH-0003vA-1v; Wed, 23 Dec 2020 10:56:43 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Arthur Miller on Wed, 23 Dec 2020 12:21:12 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261606 Archived-At: > From: Arthur Miller > Cc: eliz@gnu.org, ghe@sdf.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2020 12:21:12 +0100 > > One annoyance is also renderer which in Emacs can't draw an "empty > buffer". Libre Office draws a white rectangle and some lines > around. Emacs can't do that since we can't draw things in layers, at > least what I am aware of (Mr. Eli? ). I don't think I understand what you are saying, because you didn't elaborate about the "white rectangle and some lines around" drawn by LibreOffice. Emacs _is_ capable of displaying an empty buffer, you can easily see that for you self if you do "C-x b foobar RET". And we also have some decorations around the window and the frame, regardless of whether or not there's text displayed there. So I think the important question here is: what would we like/need to display "around" an empty text area? Armed with that knowledge, we could discuss how to do that in Emacs (if we decide it's important enough). I also think that it is not wise to talk about page decorations before we actually have a WYSIWYG editor that can display formatted text. The decorations are secondary features, IMO, the perceived difficulty in providing them shouldn't stop us from implementing "the meat" of any word processor.