From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Migrating to sourcehut - what's missing? Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2021 19:23:56 +0200 Message-ID: <83tuf0wo2b.fsf@gnu.org> References: <871r26w27h.fsf@thornhill.no> <87lf0dq08j.fsf@thornhill.no> <87v8zh6azv.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87zgot648w.fsf@posteo.net> <878rwdpry1.fsf@thornhill.no> <87lf0dk52x.fsf@posteo.net> <8735mlpqes.fsf@thornhill.no> <87zgotoanj.fsf@thornhill.no> <835yrgy8s8.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10970"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: eric@ericabrahamsen.net, philipk@posteo.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, theo@thornhill.no, dgutov@yandex.ru To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 22 18:24:56 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n05MF-0002gY-Ff for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 18:24:55 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57628 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n05ME-0001nK-3I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 12:24:54 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47444) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n05LF-0000yi-Mb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 12:23:53 -0500 Original-Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=48544 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n05LE-0004md-Ov; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 12:23:52 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=mY5ccbnpuuvovA/2JGO84djqhMy7Ec5W0zj3Gf6SVxM=; b=TpOyadCPC2M0 YHX2xxZOg/q1OPWomAVt0od6UTBnrKquCE5RVj6I84u8xn6j091QVbPQcrqtPxfM4I2sVi5vmKGit yVhUWjbeiSKYYmJpOXTw5Ncgq3DTY+gAEHuBlC3cRWvmY5niH5abHEV3AxN3RFwQYAjT8Tq52EV7y 50IQhlKlpsqYdQz34QVZXdwUYyXPzPSeK2F48M+Qw/0/uImon+PtS30SN6dR0MUPTBwuBsS8h8rTD 5I3mV90nni/+tYlZIGosd1PEmncJZ381qyjGeuHFFps1Mmh6//69lNCE5VLoOS4e+DJ+edovi7oCp tJBrIdQhXDIgbgWEZM2i2w==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2844 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n05LE-00088I-KG; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 12:23:52 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Wed, 22 Dec 2021 08:07:22 -0800) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:282793 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2021 08:07:22 -0800 > Cc: eric@ericabrahamsen.net, philipk@posteo.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > We have not yet decided to migrate the mailing list there, but we > have also not decided to never do that, ever. No, sorry: migrating the Emacs mailing lists from mailman is not on the table. You are probably not aware of the infrastructure that we enjoy with mailman-driven lists.gnu.org and its support by GNU volunteers. Ask yourself how come there's absolutely no spam on our lists (except what we ourselves post there ;-), ever. That's not a miracle, but hard work by several people, day in and day out. There are large and important projects, including GNU projects, that don't use lists.gnu.org, and their mailing lists are worse, in both cleanliness and features like search, possibility to download past messages, etc. So we are not moving our lists from lists.gnu.org any time soon. > To lower the barrier, I'd focus on migrating the bug tracker, git, > etc. first and leave the mailing list(s) for later. Once we have > migrated the important bits, we can consider the proposal to also move > the mailing list in more detail. Of course, some will fear that > migrating the mailing list will then never happen, but on the other hand > we shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. It's not just to lower the barrier: moving the bug tracker was the single most important reason why we are doing this. Please leave all the other jobs alone. The perfect is the worst enemy of the good. > I'm personally not too happy with the features of lists.sr.ht right now, > but it's neither worse nor better than Mailman (in my use). Oh no, it's much worse. Maybe not for you, but I'm the genie in the bottle behind the management of the Emacs lists, and I'm telling you: what we have on lists.gnu.org is much better, and doing the same elsewhere will require a lot of work and volunteers to get to the same level. We didn't get there overnight, either: try looking at the archives of bug-gnu-emacs 10 or 15 years ago, and you will see the catastrophe we needed to deal with back then. > So I suggest we do what Eli says and leave this to one side for the > moment. Yes, please!