From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: emacs-29 9b775ddc057 1/2: ; * etc/EGLOT-NEWS: Fix wording of last change. Date: Sat, 06 May 2023 16:22:12 +0300 Message-ID: <83ttwpfvcr.fsf@gnu.org> References: <168335548287.8529.4912240840977468283@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <20230506064443.56C75C22F15@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <59835735-faa0-4096-e491-35ec92964b7a@gutov.dev> <831qjthhm8.fsf@gnu.org> <715cdac6-83f6-6907-2ff8-3b33381f3487@gutov.dev> <83zg6hg29c.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14142"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: dmitry@gutov.dev, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 06 15:21:43 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pvHr5-0003SS-1B for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 06 May 2023 15:21:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pvHqi-0000h5-7C; Sat, 06 May 2023 09:21:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pvHqh-0000fM-A5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 May 2023 09:21:19 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pvHqg-0004oA-L9; Sat, 06 May 2023 09:21:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=/DIXEp+tcvAl2m4rO9gk2GDYWdtXDRQkdsxiu89Nr90=; b=ZbGZUJ+inCQpOeJF3IW4 ZCbkIITu/4y0sU+sqLEJzMyD2ALNtmSoT0xQwAkZag/7hgVRj+kW3vkFv9gQqIckZ8qhbq0RoPc/R 1sjb7hjAcsie7CXoW9On8oW9s3U8hu3ZQ7GoEdmcqNONREgo7ZwLEA1QpzI6M6izUKyE65HjWXyBp 7UXqexGD3PoHSUT5HM21OCHGBbt3HEDypEjuCgKwtafEEuXG+TQMEpEqpGInUqcBtR1NjehuB3bKI J9ZoSb+UuF6y/QDR9gCqnPriDtFxS75nRXdpmSeWT5u+wg0HrvzUe6j+lO6jAIqSsXyFzASKwY2jf J1itIwsZOMpUIA==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pvHqg-0007ou-19; Sat, 06 May 2023 09:21:18 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= on Sat, 6 May 2023 14:03:02 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:305902 Archived-At: > From: João Távora > Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 14:03:02 +0100 > Cc: Dmitry Gutov , emacs-devel@gnu.org > > On Sat, May 6, 2023 at 11:52 AM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > I'm surprised, to say the least. To recap: > > > > . the entire discussion of bug#62720, of which this is fallout, was > > about allowing package-install to upgrade Eglot, and according to > > João, that's what package-install did before Emacs 29. Was this > > all based on a mistake? if so, why no one has said so in all that > > long argument?? > > > One more time: in Emacs 28 package-install doesn't upgrade, > but it installs the latest, which is incompatible behaviour > if you move to Emacs 29, where that won't happen. Is this for Eglot (and use-package), or is this for any package installed from ELPA? IOW, does Emacs 29's package-install still install the latest version of a package from ELPA? And does that happen even if some older version of a package is already installed? > So if you're used to setting up a brand new Emacs 28 and > package-install Eglot to get versions with nice features and > bugfixes, you may be dismayed to find that doing the very > same thing in Emacs 29 results in what will probably be a > old version. Are you talking about users who didn't update their Eglot, except when a new Emacs version was released? Or are you talking about users who updated Eglot from ELPA (using package-install) even between Emacs releases? Or are you talking about something else entirely? > And this problem will persist _and_ worsen during the lifetime of > Emacs 29 Why do you insist on reiterating past disagreements, especially when they are tangents, is beyond me. > Anyway, experimenting and experiencing this yourself will > take at most a minute if you have Emacs 28 and Emacs 29 > handy, so there's no shroud of mystery whatsoever. Why do you think I even have a minute to spare? I'm asking the experts on package.el to describe what happens precisely _because_ I don't have that time. For example, today, I've been at the keyboard, working on various Emacs issues for the last 7 hours without any breaks, and this is my weekend! > But we already went through all this, and all these decisions > have been made already, and they are ultimately all legitimate > even if we all disagree. It sounds like what we went through was based on a misunderstanding, or at least Dmitry says it was. > I don't think the NEWS entry needed rewording: it didn't > say anything inaccurate or misleading. You made it more > complete, and perfectly accurate, but also more inescrutable, > which is not really what NEWS should be about IMO. Clearly, if I thought the original wording was acceptable, I wouldn't have touched it (with the single exception of a spelling mistake).