From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: redisplay system of emacs Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:35:34 +0200 Message-ID: <83sk9prvnd.fsf@gnu.org> References: <27349166.post@talk.nabble.com> <83bpge50k5.fsf@gnu.org> <87vdem8gly.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87k4v1xm4l.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1264764954 25013 80.91.229.12 (29 Jan 2010 11:35:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 11:35:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul R Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 29 12:35:51 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nap8g-00024s-FP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:35:50 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53713 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nap8f-0006kn-R6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:35:49 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Nap8Z-0006kO-4q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:35:43 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Nap8T-0006ik-O3 for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:35:42 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=42614 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nap8T-0006iY-DC for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:35:37 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]:61344) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Nap8S-0005St-3k for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:35:36 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0KX000500AMZ4M00@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:35:34 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.180.161]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0KX0002OGAV9RU90@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Fri, 29 Jan 2010 13:35:34 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <87k4v1xm4l.fsf@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:120643 Archived-At: > From: Paul R > Cc: Lennart Borgman , alinsoar@voila.fr, Eli Zaretskii , Emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 11:04:42 +0100 > > Hello, > > > Note that mozilla's display engine makes some dramatically different > > assumptions about what is important for the display engine to do. > > > I found a related discussion in a previous thread, mid-2009 : > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-07/threads.html#00344 Yeah, this pops up from time to time. > As many emacs youngsters, I feel that emacs really uses too much > home-made code. Surprisingly, Emacs does not benefit that much from the > free software ecosystem. That's a pretty general assessment. Any data points other than the display engine? > This is certainly connected to the fact that it > has been ahead of its time in many aspects, so it had to build its own > bricks without waiting for others to provide them. But in the meantime > some things has changed, high quality generic free software fragments > has entered the game. Entrusting them rather than home-made code would > certainly be a big job, but would instantly enlarge emacs (indirect) > contributors list. "Big job" is an understatement of the century. Most of these "generic free software fragments" are not written with Emacs peculiar requirements in mind, and don't have a Lisp API. Where these issues don't matter, Emacs does use existing software, like with the font support and display-specific back ends that actually render the characters on glass. > The performance of those engines has gotten surprisingly good, and is > still improving at a very fast rate. I would be interested to have some > real-case benchmarks. One of the most important benchmarks would be inserting or deleting a small amount of text in a very large document. As an interactive editor, Emacs has to deal with this most of the time. Not sure if those other display engines are optimized to this modus operandi.