From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:28:10 +0300 Message-ID: <83siiw9c6t.fsf@gnu.org> References: <54193A70.9020901@member.fsf.org> <87wq8pwjen.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <837g0ptnlj.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3yxwdr6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tx3tmi3t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <834mvttgsf.fsf@gnu.org> <87lhp5m99w.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h9ztm5oa.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87d2ahm3nw.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <871tqneyvl.fsf@netris.org> <87d2a54t1m.fsf@yeeloong.lan> <83lhotme1e.fsf@gnu.org> <871tql17uw.fsf@yeeloong.lan> <838uktm9gw.fsf@gnu.org> <87h9zgarvp.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83y4srjaot.fsf@gnu.org> <83r3yhiu8c.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1412954934 5034 80.91.229.3 (10 Oct 2014 15:28:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 15:28:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dak@gnu.org, mhw@netris.org, dmantipov@yandex.ru, emacs-devel@gnu.org, handa@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, stephen@xemacs.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 10 17:28:46 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xcc7Z-0005O9-V1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 17:28:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49033 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xcc7Z-00022b-H3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 11:28:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55193) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xcc7J-00021e-4n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 11:28:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xcc7E-0003qJ-Od for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 11:28:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:43027) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xcc79-0003oY-Ra; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 11:28:20 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0ND800D00IJ74100@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:28:18 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0ND800C40IZ5ZU80@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Fri, 10 Oct 2014 18:28:18 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.175 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:175222 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:24:36 -0400 > From: Richard Stallman > CC: dak@gnu.org, mhw@netris.org, dmantipov@yandex.ru, > emacs-devel@gnu.org, handa@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, > stephen@xemacs.org > > > I don't think we are talking about the same thing. I am talking about Lisp > > functions to do conversions on text that does NOT come from files. > > ... Emacs treats all of these cases the same. > > They don't HAVE to be treated the same. We are talking about changes, > here. They will be very deep and invasive changes, because currently the encoding/decoding routines don't know the purpose of the stuff they are producing. > But changes may not be needed. All operations that do encoding or > decoding allow explicit specification of the coding system. Of course, they do. But the issue at hand is precisely whether it is the application's responsibility to explicitly specify conversions that will be strict wrt invalid byte sequences, or should Emacs do that by default. There's no argument that there are facilities in Emacs to do both.