From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [feature/internal-msys] thoughts of a more function windows package Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 09:24:57 +0200 Message-ID: <83sg6t5t86.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87pn2dq3xv.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83ft39hnk1.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7nppzjy.fsf@russet.org.uk> <838s90hhb6.fsf@gnu.org> <87zh1gircl.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83turofw8r.fsf@gnu.org> <87sg6v76fd.fsf_-_@russet.org.uk> <83czxy7530.fsf@gnu.org> <87zh12grzh.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83wnw659kw.fsf@gnu.org> <87o8higedm.fsf@russet.org.uk> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39238"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Phillip Lord Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 22 08:26:11 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l2qpe-000A7u-Lo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 22 Jan 2021 08:26:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50932 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l2qpd-0000pb-Li for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 22 Jan 2021 02:26:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42612) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l2qoX-0000Fu-8p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Jan 2021 02:25:01 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59312) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l2qoW-0006nJ-5T; Fri, 22 Jan 2021 02:25:00 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2329 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1l2qoV-0005Pl-CH; Fri, 22 Jan 2021 02:24:59 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87o8higedm.fsf@russet.org.uk> (message from Phillip Lord on Thu, 21 Jan 2021 21:37:57 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:263267 Archived-At: > From: Phillip Lord > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 21:37:57 +0000 > > Yep, it's big. I get this before installation: > > 319 MB (335,214,637 bytes) > > and this after installation. > > 826 MB (866,624,644 bytes) > > My guess is that it's the co-install of perl that is causing this issue > rather than vim. It's Vim, and Perl, and Tcl. And at some point I'd expect them to include Python as well, to support those Git commands which rely on it. > But, openssh comes for free with this. And "huge" is a > relative term. An installation under 1Gb seems reasonable to me. I thought this started as an attempt to make the Emacs installation smaller... If the rationale is to provide a full development environment on top of MS-Windows, then indeed the size will be much larger, and you will need to include a lot of packages there. Just be sure to spell this out (including the size, perhaps) when you ask the user whether he or she wants to install that. > > Next, by "msys" you mean all those non-native programs that depend on > > msys-1.0.dll? That's again meant for MinGW developers, not "normal" > > users. > > Yes. Because it's got all the packages and tools and as far as I can > see, they work with Emacs. They mostly work, until they don't. Like with Cygwin, there are subtle incompatibilities, mainly in file names and in communications with subprocesses and response to "signals". Encoding defaults are also different. > > (Btw, pacman can ask questions and prompt the user for confirmation, > > but the way you invoke it in w32-msys-run doesn't seem to be prepared > > for such interaction?) > > That's why I use "--no-confirm". I'm looking for the minimum here that > does something usable. What happens when pacman wants to replace Bash from which it was launched, or update itself or some of its component DLLs? > > I think the only good idea here is to tell the user to amend PATH by > > adding such-and-such directories to it. I don't like installers that > > futz with my PATH, and would hate it if Emacs did that to others. > > It's very easy to get that wrong, especially on Windows. > > There has to be a better way that this. The only way I know of is to distribute a program that writes into the Registry. Don't forget that there are system-wide variables and variables specific to the current user. And some systems have the former locked down and the latter requires a UAC elevation. Good luck (you will need it) with successfully negotiating all these obstacles.