From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an improved `help-for-help' Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2021 13:38:00 +0300 Message-ID: <83sg3elkdz.fsf@gnu.org> References: <838s7hxqkr.fsf@gnu.org> <1c2c69f9-f42e-45e2-ab0e-8506aa859f85@yandex.ru> <8335ven7tu.fsf@gnu.org> <6654ddbe-0f1b-f36e-26f2-f4ee178b12ac@yandex.ru> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11302"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: stefan@marxist.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 25 12:38:56 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lacAC-0002pz-Fs for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 12:38:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58880 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lacAB-0001hr-JY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 06:38:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53208) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lac9b-0001J2-HJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 06:38:19 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35062) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lac9b-00030D-6u; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 06:38:19 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1048 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lac9a-0007oa-HL; Sun, 25 Apr 2021 06:38:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: <6654ddbe-0f1b-f36e-26f2-f4ee178b12ac@yandex.ru> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Sun, 25 Apr 2021 13:20:00 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:268366 Archived-At: > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Dmitry Gutov > Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2021 13:20:00 +0300 > > On 25.04.2021 10:26, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >>> Perhaps the easiest fix would be to handle Delete same as Backspace here. > >> Yes, that could alleviate the problem in this particular case. > > Please don't, that would be a horribly wrong change. > > I have described an obvious problem: Emacs says press DEL to scroll, the > user presses Del on their keyboard, and Emacs exits instead. I'm not opposed to finding a solution, I just don't think blindly replacing each DEL with Backspace is a good solution. We could mention Backspace in the text there, or we could add PgUp/PgDn, for example > All that in a Help interface, which is supposed to help newbies. Not > grizzled veterans. You may be surprised to learn that I use that command quite often. And in any case, we are not going to make veterans, grizzled or not, unlearn what they have learned long ago, I hope. > It's a real problem, if you want people to actually use this feature. > > > Like making C-f move backwards. > > If C-f never did anything in a certain interface, and doing this would > help usability, why not. But DEL does do something. And so does Delete.