From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PGTK-related misconceptions Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 08:56:34 +0300 Message-ID: <83sfq9vcod.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87lew7qdtj.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgkjvujl.fsf@athena.silentflame.com> <87czhfkldw.fsf@yahoo.com> <87sfqbvtcw.fsf@athena.silentflame.com> <87tuarj5lv.fsf@yahoo.com> <094f1b7a-9a50-07d4-8b7f-9ba65286b49c@gmail.com> <878rs1by4p.fsf@gmail.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24389"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, jporterbugs@gmail.com, spwhitton@spwhitton.name, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tim Cross Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 19 09:15:36 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ngi5H-0006Dx-Qt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 09:15:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44450 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ngi5G-0003c7-MT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 03:15:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34598) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nggr1-0006ht-NS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 01:56:49 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:60176) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nggr1-0005Km-Cq; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 01:56:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=21zrM335DTlKqWcoC9ZdC/qes0ziQFJlndvfFS6QvAw=; b=H7nr9GGEjfU+ mg9VAvt8HtFjm5x0UQCcaJvCH8svqqRY8W2+nPjpltP8ThBoZ+P9GTNKlMTWy9D5yGPuoY8IdK6Kx sXXjOJNVE0fOCdXTA7RsGb9jJcrOErJdMUREcvTxA8KUwNCBNZeKvJFFK3oNZZ9tQJwGnFoVOh5D6 Px3IYvpvZRj7R9BB41g6Q3fZhxwO3OP4QEJAMn58K6UzPggifEU1NE4PUwH006W+Oi4FutiFiHsTp K32ZHpLNWM04KQRY0kQIy7EydOuBA23iZvha9On3T45tKNc3pmcnM12Nfr6iFmxiPqqgVP0sWiY80 25Sv9Jy73O5rp2u4jjY2zQ==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4950 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nggqy-0001mG-QL; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 01:56:46 -0400 In-Reply-To: <878rs1by4p.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Tim Cross on Tue, 19 Apr 2022 12:18:07 +1000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:288651 Archived-At: > From: Tim Cross > Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 12:18:07 +1000 > Cc: Po Lu , emacs-devel@gnu.org, > Sean Whitton > > I agree. I think this is the main point being missed by others who have > argued the existing documentation is clear enough. Like it or not, > people often don't read the documentation or NEWS file carefully. There > is also a tendency for people to believe any new feature is an > improvement and I suspect many people will think a pure GTK build is > going to be better than a hybrid X/GTK one. > > We should just add a very explicit and clear warning not to use > --with-pgtk if your running under X and put this statement right at the > beginning of the section in the NEWS file about this new option. Aren't you contradicting yourself here? If people don't read documentation, how can any addition to the documentation solve this issue? (Of course, I don't object to saying something in INSTALL about that, just pointing out that it's hard to have it both ways.) > It might even be worthwhile adding a warning in configure as well (like > the one we have about pop support). I object to annoying people who build Emacs with such warnings. Besides, warnings (as opposed to errors) in the configure script are easily overlooked, because people tend to leave the build run unattended, and do other useful things while it runs. > Like others, I expect many distributions are going to bundle > emacs-gtk believing it is an improvement. I suspect it is going to > be a bigger issue given that some popular distributions, like > fedora, will be shipping with wayland as their default but there > will likely be many who will choose to switch back to X, but then be > faced with an Emacs built with pgtk to better support the default > wayland setup. IME, there's nothing we can do against such misconceptions. We will get bug reports and will respond by pointing people to NEWS and INSTALL. Eventually, enough people will bump into this to realize the truth, and the issue will go away. No catastrophe that I could spot, and no need to get too excited.