From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2023 13:37:59 +0200 Message-ID: <83sf5fyx60.fsf@gnu.org> References: <871qd8sfdx.fsf@posteo.net> <838r7g8pys.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcbrgnr.fsf@posteo.net> <25924.21015.19614.951576@orion.rgrjr.com> <87bkc4jpja.fsf@dataswamp.org> <12da6bcb-1818-7fbe-12af-8d4607724332@gutov.dev> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27850"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: acm@muc.de, dmitry@gutov.dev, bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 09 12:38:58 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r13NC-000703-3P for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 12:38:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r13MV-0004Ss-1b; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 06:38:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r13MP-0004Qg-3D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 06:38:09 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r13MN-00056j-5O; Thu, 09 Nov 2023 06:38:08 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=XLdaY3ik4rxYe3vJY7PpIWH5TfXMeQu71PoLeCtfPxc=; b=CnonCOdsz4kl1aKiIkQc 7iI4jWVmndYi8iYeCAb1BpTkfuJ6J+E3R6MHE5iohLckDB0Hp7uhs7BHGDpWV05uGf+H+G000C3c7 F35G+lqA7LIjzL3rJyVuGr+1IBSeS92wtj4lxaKppeESCuMz8v5V+X82gBWPLRvPn7rTivEcQtDct q6Y3WgvgmtN8F11bkvwjJ/ntWNXLRzobZAHicRk+dQjRfgTmOdChEX6aydxjS0NuWXtMw/Z9Harud G52FobpjsrJJbQgxCxiNareGs6nfWSH6D7il2f/V+FOJCNNWML47fWoM5lFloDCungMFr7Lo0b2Vo bG4BHKfnK/L/mQ==; In-Reply-To: (message from =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= on Thu, 9 Nov 2023 11:06:02 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312397 Archived-At: > From: João Távora > Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2023 11:06:02 +0000 > Cc: Dmitry Gutov , > Björn Bidar , > emacs-devel > > So I propose we let programmers use their judgement. That's fair enough, provided that those same programmers step up to become the Emacs maintainers, and thus share the burden to at least some extent. Especially those of them who consider witty sarcasm a useful style in a discussion like this one. The following is left as an exercise for the interested readers: take a non-trivial piece of code that you never in your life have laid your eyes upon, and decide what to do with a serious bug report about that code, with or without a patch proposed by someone. A recent case in point: bug#66970. Bonus points for doing this with code in a programming language you don't command 110%, like C if you are mainly a Lisp programmer or vice versa.