* Windows-specific questions about Bazaar
@ 2009-12-01 19:15 Eli Zaretskii
2009-12-01 19:29 ` Lennart Borgman
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-12-01 19:15 UTC (permalink / raw
To: emacs-devel
If someone has experience in using Bazaar on MS-Windows, could you
please answer the following questions:
. The Reference Guide says: "On Windows auto-detection of Putty's
plink.exe is disabled. Default SSH client for Windows is
paramiko. User still can force usage of plink if explicitly set
environment variable BZR_SSH=plink." Any advice whether to stick
to the default or force usage of plink? (One obvious, but minor
disadvantage of not using plink is that you will have two places
where each public key and machine signatures are saved.)
. CVS was notorious for problems when the time zone switches from
Standard Time to DST and back, even though modern Windows systems
and NTFS store times and file time stamps in UTC. Typically,
unless you did something special, the first "cvs up" after the
switch would send the entire sandbox upstream. (I even wrote a
program that moved all time stamps an hour forward or back to avoid
that.) Does Bazaar cope correctly with this, assuming the
time-zone information is set correctly in the Registry?
. Does Bazaar honor $HOME on Windows, or is $BZR_HOME the only
variable it looks at, before falling back on the default location?
TIA
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows-specific questions about Bazaar
2009-12-01 19:15 Windows-specific questions about Bazaar Eli Zaretskii
@ 2009-12-01 19:29 ` Lennart Borgman
2009-12-01 20:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-12-01 19:56 ` David Robinow
2009-12-01 21:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Lennart Borgman @ 2009-12-01 19:29 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: emacs-devel
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> If someone has experience in using Bazaar on MS-Windows, could you
> please answer the following questions:
>
> . The Reference Guide says: "On Windows auto-detection of Putty's
> plink.exe is disabled. Default SSH client for Windows is
> paramiko. User still can force usage of plink if explicitly set
> environment variable BZR_SSH=plink." Any advice whether to stick
> to the default or force usage of plink? (One obvious, but minor
> disadvantage of not using plink is that you will have two places
> where each public key and machine signatures are saved.)
I do not know much about this but I am using bzr under Windows to
reach Launchpad.
I actually use pageant.exe that came with plink and putty to login to
Launchpad for bzr. However I am obviously not using plink. Or I do not
believe so. BZR_SSH is not set and plink is not in PATH.
However it works.
> . CVS was notorious for problems when the time zone switches from
> Standard Time to DST and back, even though modern Windows systems
> and NTFS store times and file time stamps in UTC. Typically,
> unless you did something special, the first "cvs up" after the
> switch would send the entire sandbox upstream. (I even wrote a
> program that moved all time stamps an hour forward or back to avoid
> that.) Does Bazaar cope correctly with this, assuming the
> time-zone information is set correctly in the Registry?
>
> . Does Bazaar honor $HOME on Windows, or is $BZR_HOME the only
> variable it looks at, before falling back on the default location?
>
> TIA
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows-specific questions about Bazaar
2009-12-01 19:15 Windows-specific questions about Bazaar Eli Zaretskii
2009-12-01 19:29 ` Lennart Borgman
@ 2009-12-01 19:56 ` David Robinow
2009-12-01 20:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-12-01 21:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: David Robinow @ 2009-12-01 19:56 UTC (permalink / raw
To: emacs-devel
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> . Does Bazaar honor $HOME on Windows, or is $BZR_HOME the only
> variable it looks at, before falling back on the default location?
It appears to check BZR_HOME, APPDATA, and HOME in that order.
I don't think deleting APPDATA is a good idea, so the check for HOME
isn't really useful.
See config_dir() in bzrlib/config.py in bzr-2.0.2
There's similar code in win32utils.py for locating the log file.
[Note the TODO in config_dir() ]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows-specific questions about Bazaar
2009-12-01 19:56 ` David Robinow
@ 2009-12-01 20:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-12-01 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw
To: David Robinow; +Cc: emacs-devel
> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 14:56:13 -0500
> From: David Robinow <drobinow@gmail.com>
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > . Does Bazaar honor $HOME on Windows, or is $BZR_HOME the only
> > variable it looks at, before falling back on the default location?
> It appears to check BZR_HOME, APPDATA, and HOME in that order.
> I don't think deleting APPDATA is a good idea, so the check for HOME
> isn't really useful.
Thanks.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows-specific questions about Bazaar
2009-12-01 19:29 ` Lennart Borgman
@ 2009-12-01 20:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-12-01 22:15 ` Alexander Belchenko
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-12-01 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Lennart Borgman; +Cc: emacs-devel
> From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 20:29:24 +0100
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
>
> I actually use pageant.exe that came with plink and putty to login to
> Launchpad for bzr. However I am obviously not using plink. Or I do not
> believe so. BZR_SSH is not set and plink is not in PATH.
>
> However it works.
Sure, it works; I didn't want to imply it doesn't I think the default
SSH client (paramiko, whatever that is) uses pageant for
authentication, but plink is not used unless BZR_SSH is set.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows-specific questions about Bazaar
2009-12-01 19:15 Windows-specific questions about Bazaar Eli Zaretskii
2009-12-01 19:29 ` Lennart Borgman
2009-12-01 19:56 ` David Robinow
@ 2009-12-01 21:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-12-01 22:16 ` Alexander Belchenko
2 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2009-12-01 21:59 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: emacs-devel
> . CVS was notorious for problems when the time zone switches from
> Standard Time to DST and back, even though modern Windows systems
> and NTFS store times and file time stamps in UTC. Typically,
> unless you did something special, the first "cvs up" after the
> switch would send the entire sandbox upstream. (I even wrote a
> program that moved all time stamps an hour forward or back to avoid
> that.) Does Bazaar cope correctly with this, assuming the
> time-zone information is set correctly in the Registry?
AFAIK, bzr does not use time-stamps in a semantics-significant way.
So at most you may notice a slight performance hit when the time changes
because Bzr ends up scanning more files than strictly needed.
But it won't change the data sent over the network, AFAIK.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows-specific questions about Bazaar
2009-12-01 20:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2009-12-01 22:15 ` Alexander Belchenko
2009-12-02 4:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Alexander Belchenko @ 2009-12-01 22:15 UTC (permalink / raw
To: emacs-devel
Eli Zaretskii пишет:
>> From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>
>> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 20:29:24 +0100
>> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
>>
>> I actually use pageant.exe that came with plink and putty to login to
>> Launchpad for bzr. However I am obviously not using plink. Or I do not
>> believe so. BZR_SSH is not set and plink is not in PATH.
>>
>> However it works.
>
> Sure, it works; I didn't want to imply it doesn't I think the default
> SSH client (paramiko, whatever that is) uses pageant for
> authentication, but plink is not used unless BZR_SSH is set.
I'm not quite understand your last remark.
paramiko library can use password authentication, or SSH keys authentication via pageant,
automatically. Regardless of presence of plink.
So if you're using plink + pageant successfully, you can use bzr + pageant without problems.
Using paramiko on Windows is safe choice.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows-specific questions about Bazaar
2009-12-01 21:59 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2009-12-01 22:16 ` Alexander Belchenko
2009-12-02 4:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Alexander Belchenko @ 2009-12-01 22:16 UTC (permalink / raw
To: emacs-devel
Stefan Monnier пишет:
>> . CVS was notorious for problems when the time zone switches from
>> Standard Time to DST and back, even though modern Windows systems
>> and NTFS store times and file time stamps in UTC. Typically,
>> unless you did something special, the first "cvs up" after the
>> switch would send the entire sandbox upstream. (I even wrote a
>> program that moved all time stamps an hour forward or back to avoid
>> that.) Does Bazaar cope correctly with this, assuming the
>> time-zone information is set correctly in the Registry?
>
> AFAIK, bzr does not use time-stamps in a semantics-significant way.
> So at most you may notice a slight performance hit when the time changes
> because Bzr ends up scanning more files than strictly needed.
> But it won't change the data sent over the network, AFAIK.
That's correct.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows-specific questions about Bazaar
2009-12-01 22:16 ` Alexander Belchenko
@ 2009-12-02 4:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-12-02 4:11 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Alexander Belchenko; +Cc: emacs-devel
> From: Alexander Belchenko <bialix@ukr.net>
> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:16:52 +0200
>
> Stefan Monnier пишет:
> >> . CVS was notorious for problems when the time zone switches from
> >> Standard Time to DST and back, even though modern Windows systems
> >> and NTFS store times and file time stamps in UTC. Typically,
> >> unless you did something special, the first "cvs up" after the
> >> switch would send the entire sandbox upstream. (I even wrote a
> >> program that moved all time stamps an hour forward or back to avoid
> >> that.) Does Bazaar cope correctly with this, assuming the
> >> time-zone information is set correctly in the Registry?
> >
> > AFAIK, bzr does not use time-stamps in a semantics-significant way.
> > So at most you may notice a slight performance hit when the time changes
> > because Bzr ends up scanning more files than strictly needed.
> > But it won't change the data sent over the network, AFAIK.
>
> That's correct.
Thanks.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows-specific questions about Bazaar
2009-12-01 22:15 ` Alexander Belchenko
@ 2009-12-02 4:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-12-02 5:02 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-12-02 5:55 ` Alexander Belchenko
0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2009-12-02 4:17 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Alexander Belchenko; +Cc: emacs-devel
> From: Alexander Belchenko <bialix@ukr.net>
> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:15:49 +0200
>
> > Sure, it works; I didn't want to imply it doesn't I think the default
> > SSH client (paramiko, whatever that is) uses pageant for
> > authentication, but plink is not used unless BZR_SSH is set.
>
> I'm not quite understand your last remark.
There was a period missing there, after "doesn't". Does that help to
understand it? I was just telling Lennart how I think it works by
default: uses pageant for authentication, but does not use plink or
psftp for the actual access.
> Using paramiko on Windows is safe choice.
I was asking about relative merits. Are there any?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows-specific questions about Bazaar
2009-12-02 4:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2009-12-02 5:02 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-12-02 5:55 ` Alexander Belchenko
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Óscar Fuentes @ 2009-12-02 5:02 UTC (permalink / raw
To: emacs-devel
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
[snip]
Paramiko is an implementation of ssh2 for Python. It makes plink
unnecessary.
>> Using paramiko on Windows is safe choice.
>
> I was asking about relative merits. Are there any?
AFAIK, both work fine. As paramiko is a Python thing, you have one less
external dependence.
It is probable that bzr+paramiko has more attention from the developers
than bzr+plink too, as paramiko is cross-platform and almost all bzr
developers work on GNU/Linux.
--
Óscar
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: Windows-specific questions about Bazaar
2009-12-02 4:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-12-02 5:02 ` Óscar Fuentes
@ 2009-12-02 5:55 ` Alexander Belchenko
1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Alexander Belchenko @ 2009-12-02 5:55 UTC (permalink / raw
To: emacs-devel
Eli Zaretskii пишет:
>> From: Alexander Belchenko <bialix@ukr.net>
>> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:15:49 +0200
>>
>>> Sure, it works; I didn't want to imply it doesn't I think the default
>>> SSH client (paramiko, whatever that is) uses pageant for
>>> authentication, but plink is not used unless BZR_SSH is set.
>> I'm not quite understand your last remark.
>
> There was a period missing there, after "doesn't". Does that help to
> understand it? I was just telling Lennart how I think it works by
> default: uses pageant for authentication, but does not use plink or
> psftp for the actual access.
>
>> Using paramiko on Windows is safe choice.
>
> I was asking about relative merits. Are there any?
Using bzr with plink has proved to have problems in some corner cases, because bzr launch plink as
subprocess and therefore has very little control over it. Paramiko is python library with rich API,
so bzr can have more fine-grained control over it.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-12-02 5:55 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-12-01 19:15 Windows-specific questions about Bazaar Eli Zaretskii
2009-12-01 19:29 ` Lennart Borgman
2009-12-01 20:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-12-01 22:15 ` Alexander Belchenko
2009-12-02 4:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-12-02 5:02 ` Óscar Fuentes
2009-12-02 5:55 ` Alexander Belchenko
2009-12-01 19:56 ` David Robinow
2009-12-01 20:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2009-12-01 21:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-12-01 22:16 ` Alexander Belchenko
2009-12-02 4:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
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