From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 05:55:56 +0200 Message-ID: <83r46z69ir.fsf@gnu.org> References: <52FCD2B4.5080006@yandex.ru> <52FD9F1D.50205@yandex.ru> <83mwhucg1h.fsf@gnu.org> <878ute589i.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83d2iqc84m.fsf@gnu.org> <87wqgxkcr9.fsf@yandex.ru> <834n41db0d.fsf@gnu.org> <52FE2985.4070703@yandex.ru> <831tz5daes.fsf@gnu.org> <8738jlohd6.fsf@yandex.ru> <83txc1bl83.fsf@gnu.org> <5300189A.9090208@yandex.ru> <83wqgv9fbj.fsf@gnu.org> <20140216180712.236069f6@forcix.jorgenschaefer.de> <83sirj9cyp.fsf@gnu.org> <20140217203145.71a849f7@forcix.jorgenschaefer.de> <837g8t8ouc.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwho68qu.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <83k3cs7898.fsf@gnu.org> <8761ocsai9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1392782157 18318 80.91.229.3 (19 Feb 2014 03:55:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 03:55:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: chad Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 19 04:56:05 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WFyGS-0001nf-36 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 04:56:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56236 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WFyGR-0002n2-Mo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:56:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45902) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WFyGI-0002ir-1V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:55:59 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WFyGC-0006k6-6k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:55:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout26.012.net.il ([80.179.55.182]:49068) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WFyGB-0006hq-Ib for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:55:48 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout26.012.net.il by mtaout26.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0N18004004H0MV00@mtaout26.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 05:54:07 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout26.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0N18003GE5I72C40@mtaout26.012.net.il>; Wed, 19 Feb 2014 05:54:07 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.182 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:169749 Archived-At: > From: chad > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:43:03 -0800 >=20 >=20 > On 18 Feb 2014, at 07:31, David Kastrup wrote: >=20 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >=20 > >>> Incidentally, I say "change" and not "patch". Submitting a chan= ge these > >>> days generally means "clone, branch, pull request". > >>=20 > >> Sorry, I don't understand the subtlety. > >=20 > > I think it's a paraphrase of "real developers use GitHub", a serv= ice > > running on proprietary software and having a variety of commercia= l > > offerings, including a rather popular "take it or leave it" zero > > pricetag offering. >=20 > I think it=92s a paraphrase of =93lots of developers are used to a = model where they submit changes that are taken, with or without modif= ication, rather than a process whereby they suggest a change and then= begin a dialog=94. Github is definitely one of the promulgators of t= his model, but it=92s certainly not the only one. >=20 > Without digging into real data (sorry), I=92d say that around 33-50= % of the changes submitted to emacs-devel from new people don=92t lan= d, either because of explicit rejection or because the effective hurd= le is high enough that people don=92t get over it. I=92d further say = that at least half of those failures to land result from platform-spe= cific issues. There are good reasons for the policies that create th= ese hurdles, but they surely make it much harder for people to start = working on emacs, even compared to other free/libre software projects= . So you are saying that patch review process is that "red tape" that was mentioned earlier? If so, all the projects I'm involved with insist on the "dialog", i.e. that the original contributors improve and fix their contributions until they are acceptable. Which project= s don't? Of course, volunteers are welcome to help with that, i.e. pick up suc= h patches and rework them into acceptable state. Because so far the number of people who do that is countable on a single hand. Given that, you cannot expect those people to also do the reworking, even i= f they thought this was the way to go.