From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Concurrency, again Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 21:19:43 +0300 Message-ID: <83r37eyh1c.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <86k2dk77w6.fsf@molnjunk.nocrew.org> <9D64B8EA-DB52-413D-AE6A-264416C391F3@iotcl.com> <83int1g0s5.fsf@gnu.org> <83twckekqq.fsf@gnu.org> <83mvi9a3mh.fsf@gnu.org> <20161012165911.58437154@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161012173314.799d1dc5@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <8360owaj2s.fsf@gnu.org> <20161013092701.77461800@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161017105345.2f255760@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <83y41nx8l6.fsf@gnu.org> <20161017123459.5ded9408@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <83twcayku6.fsf@gnu.org> <20161017135353.533db169@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476729263 20313 195.159.176.226 (17 Oct 2016 18:34:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 18:34:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: jwiegley@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Perry E. Metzger" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 17 20:34:18 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bwCjj-0003wI-2Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 20:34:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35006 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwCjl-0003Ay-2m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:34:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33282) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwCWC-00006Y-8l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:20:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwCW9-0002k9-KD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:20:12 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47860) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bwCW9-0002ju-GQ; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:20:09 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1838 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bwCW6-0000hb-HW; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:20:09 -0400 In-reply-to: <20161017135353.533db169@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> (perry@piermont.com) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208376 Archived-At: > Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 13:53:53 -0400 > From: "Perry E. Metzger" > Cc: jwiegley@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Well, active content like video or audio too. Isn't that already asynch in nature? IOW, isn't it right that you write the stream to some system API, which then plays it asynchronously at its own leisure? > For good or ill, though, active content is now most of the > web. Also, the line between JavaScript and active content (like > HTML5 video) is often thin. If one wanted to have Emacs be a truly > effective browser, it would need the ability to deal with this. Emacs can deal with that if the service which performs the job can present a 'pselect'able interface. That could be an API or a subprocess (of any type we support, including a socket). > I think having Emacs be a truly effective browser is a very useful > goal btw. I don't. I think it's good to have Web browsing facilities in Emacs, including EWW, but making Emacs a browser that can compete with the likes of Firefox and Chrome should not be our goal, because we will never succeed (and we don't have to). > I love the idea of never having to leave emacs again. You are "leaving" it already: for compiling, for grepping, for talking to MTA, for spell-checking, etc. Emacs cannot do everything, it can only ever hope to have an interface to everything. And browse-url is as good an interface as any. > Of course, one could do something like wrapping the Webkit instances > in subprocesses, which might not be awful from an isolation > viewpoint. Still, that leaves the question of how to handle the > interaction with such a thing. The way we always do: through pselect. Which is a proper interface for handling multiple streams of data. > I suppose part of the problem here is that the existing Emacs > implementation goes back to an era before such things could have even > been contemplated. What problem is that?