From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: decision on moving core packages to ELPA; also move to obsolete? Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 20:33:41 +0200 Message-ID: <83r1nqaph6.fsf@gnu.org> References: <86a6ugnopl.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <83im94b17m.fsf@gnu.org> <834kknatxs.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29083"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org, daniele@grinta.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 15 19:35:14 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFAH-0007RN-TD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 19:35:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51814 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpFAG-0003jG-U3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 13:35:12 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42286) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpF8w-0002Q8-LM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 13:33:50 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56429) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpF8v-0006Rr-Hl; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 13:33:49 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1843 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kpF8u-0000LE-Tc; Tue, 15 Dec 2020 13:33:49 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Tue, 15 Dec 2020 12:03:57 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260896 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Daniele Nicolodi , stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2020 12:03:57 -0500 > > >> Org is distributed as part of Emacs but it is routinely also > >> installed and updated from ELPA and AFAIK it does not implement any > >> special trick to make this work smotly. > > The idea is that users should be able to install, upgrade, and > > downgrade such packages exactly like they do with unbundled ones. > > I still don't see what's the problem. > > With current Emacs, users can upgrade/downgrade their version of Org, > python.el (etc...) via `list-packages`. Clearly the same would apply to > bundled ELPA packages. Doesn't package.el install stuff under ~/.emacs.d/elpa/ ? If so, what happens with installed Lisp files under /usr/share/ ? (Sorry, sent the previous response too soon.) And what about the relation between the version in ELPA and the branches/versions of Emacs in the Emacs repository? IOW, how will a package that needs Emacs version N+1 work with Emacs version N? Bottom line, I feel that there's some kind of "trust us, it will be fine" attitude here, whereas I would expect careful investigation of all these aspects and some description of the procedures. We had discussions about this a year or two ago, and my impression from them was that there are still loose ends that no one has bothered to resolve. I don't think dismissing these aspects is a good way of making progress here.