From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: rms@gnu.org
Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org,
drew.adams@oracle.com, juri@linkov.net
Subject: Re: Confused by y-or-n-p
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 16:58:40 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83r1mza0rj.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1kwfun-0000ZM-Rn@fencepost.gnu.org> (message from Richard Stallman on Tue, 05 Jan 2021 01:33:57 -0500)
> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: eliz@gnu.org, rudalics@gmx.at, juri@linkov.net,
> drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 01:33:57 -0500
>
> > Three out of five Emacs maintainers have now weighed in (at some length,
> > in total), that they don't think your proposal would be helpful in
> > practice, so I think it's time to let this go.
>
> We can't "let it go". A combination of our practices adds up to a
> system that will install some UI changes without having much of a
> discussion about it. And then, once they are released, it is "too
> late" to argue to revert them.
I don't think the above is a balanced description of the reality. We
have a single incident, or maybe a small number of them, where the
process failed to spot a problematic change in time for it to be fixed
before the release. So we are fixing it later.
That's not what the "system" is, that's a rare exception. Mistakes
happen, and will continue to happen, no matter what procedures we will
install. Let's not exaggerate the significance of a single incident,
and let's not draw drastic conclusions from it that blow the issue out
of proportions, because that never leads to sound decisions.
> There are many ways we could fix this, but we need to fix it.
The problems are rare, so the proposed solutions should not unduly
complicate the existing process, which in the vast majority of the
cases does work, and works well. I invite you to read the NEWS for
the few recent releases looking for behavior changes that have a
documented way of disabling them, and for changes that are opt-in to
begin with. _That_ is what the "system" produces, not the one or two
rare exceptions.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-01-05 14:58 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 210+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-12-23 15:24 Confused by y-or-n-p Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-23 16:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-12-23 17:04 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-23 17:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-23 18:11 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-12-23 18:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-25 4:29 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-23 19:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-12-23 19:53 ` Karl Fogel
2020-12-23 20:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-24 18:26 ` Karl Fogel
2020-12-24 5:56 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-24 5:53 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-24 6:06 ` David Masterson
2020-12-24 16:49 ` João Távora
2020-12-24 15:38 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-24 20:47 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-25 7:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-25 9:07 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-25 11:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-25 13:20 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-26 10:24 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-26 11:01 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-26 13:41 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-27 16:25 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-27 17:16 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-28 8:48 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-27 18:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-28 8:52 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-28 9:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-28 17:06 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-28 17:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-30 9:54 ` Juri Linkov
2021-01-02 5:25 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-02 13:36 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-02 5:25 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-02 5:25 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-02 7:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-02 7:22 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-02 17:06 ` Drew Adams
2021-01-02 17:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-03 6:06 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-03 15:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 5:16 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 6:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 7:54 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-01-04 9:21 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-04 9:24 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-04 9:55 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-04 11:28 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-04 14:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-04 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 15:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-04 16:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-05 8:16 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-05 15:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 17:17 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 17:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 18:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 18:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-05 8:32 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-06 5:02 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 16:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-06 17:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 17:13 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 17:20 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-04 17:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-04 18:52 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-05 8:33 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-04 18:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-06 5:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 7:53 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 17:53 ` Juri Linkov
2021-01-05 6:33 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05 14:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-05 6:35 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 10:28 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-04 17:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 17:28 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-06 5:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 22:18 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-05 14:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 0:14 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-06 3:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 9:41 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-06 15:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 15:46 ` Tassilo Horn
2021-01-06 16:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 16:36 ` Tassilo Horn
2021-01-06 16:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 23:57 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-07 9:41 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-01-08 6:17 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 7:41 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-13 15:57 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 5:13 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05 6:29 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 8:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-05 6:33 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05 14:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-07 7:33 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 15:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-13 15:57 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-13 16:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-15 5:28 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-15 7:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-17 6:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 15:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-05 14:58 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2021-01-04 14:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 21:18 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-01-07 3:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 15:28 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 5:17 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 6:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 15:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 7:53 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 10:28 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-04 11:02 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-04 11:35 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-04 12:34 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-04 13:10 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-04 17:21 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-05 10:48 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-05 11:10 ` tomas
2021-01-05 15:34 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-04 15:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 22:17 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-05 11:44 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-05 14:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-05 18:18 ` Juri Linkov
2021-01-05 6:44 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-03 6:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-03 6:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 18:03 ` Juri Linkov
2021-01-06 5:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-14 8:50 ` Juri Linkov
2021-01-15 5:41 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-03 6:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-03 15:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-05 6:25 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05 14:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 0:14 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-06 0:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-06 9:41 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-06 11:06 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-01-06 15:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 15:46 ` Drew Adams
2021-01-06 23:57 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-07 9:46 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-01-07 10:03 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-07 10:29 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-01-09 6:34 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-09 8:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-09 14:06 ` Following etc/NEWS on the development branch (was: Confused by y-or-n-p) Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-01-09 14:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-09 16:05 ` Following etc/NEWS on the development branch Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-01-09 9:34 ` Confused by y-or-n-p Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-10 6:07 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 23:34 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-08 2:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-09 9:34 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-08 7:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-09 6:44 ` Stealing minibuffers [Was: Confused by y-or-n-p] Richard Stallman
2021-01-09 9:34 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-09 10:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 15:32 ` Confused by y-or-n-p Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 7:52 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 7:52 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 3:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-28 5:26 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-28 5:51 ` Drew Adams
2020-12-28 8:59 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-26 10:24 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-26 10:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-27 5:38 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-25 9:23 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-25 11:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-25 8:42 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-25 11:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-25 13:20 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-26 10:24 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-26 10:41 ` Sv: " arthur miller
2020-12-27 5:38 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-26 10:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-26 13:45 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-27 5:46 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-26 18:30 ` Drew Adams
2020-12-25 4:40 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-25 8:42 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-28 17:09 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-29 8:53 ` martin rudalics
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