From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Alternative build systems Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 19:55:30 +0300 Message-ID: <83r1167vct.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83wnb1bt96.fsf@gnu.org> <87a67vuwmo.fsf@gnus.org> <41a702f1-60fb-65fb-3862-d198c46cd6e6@gmail.com> <87sflnqaub.fsf@gnus.org> <87a67vhtat.fsf@telefonica.net> <83wnaz6ioy.fsf@gnu.org> <874jy2j4s9.fsf@telefonica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5678"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 23 18:58:25 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oQXEO-0001EZ-Uh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 18:58:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54698 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQXEN-0006gT-U9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 12:58:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43296) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQXBn-0005Vd-8N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 12:55:43 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49860) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQXBj-0006hq-8k; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 12:55:42 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=pA+GTIBvzikrrolkDS97s2c1XU5Ph+slRohUElZKNhQ=; b=qzBC/Lt7jb+ad5A1bo6X L4Zqf/sK0/q/HfDfVU3679s7DuJXcEAJPmoTDfs1cjHdTAkb8m4pQLPyNtZNUy9Kv5EscwOI8fqdW Hg0hp4UbADmSuOO5OXM5VI9d3akCEMupQTq82GqqvNah5QWF71d+5NC9rPL0SQ7ZcHoZH6i/c7cfc AfH37R7WT85z4IdBsI1IvDBG5Mj0sGletA4oeJ3q62oaoa1NnO8QeIyLbm4MOqbDZN50P7Texf8um sS4YIMdmlRcm7lerHe6jl5xlYWtzR1D/jZPyNmG3WPjOoI8pNhHQOB5p7jRwT7tlmKXV8OXxDXrTx q/egfLWihQDIgQ==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4263 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQXBZ-00033V-Pe; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 12:55:37 -0400 In-Reply-To: <874jy2j4s9.fsf@telefonica.net> (message from =?iso-8859-1?Q?=D3scar?= Fuentes on Tue, 23 Aug 2022 18:36:22 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:293909 Archived-At: > From: Óscar Fuentes > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 18:36:22 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> Apart from better performance, CMake would simplify the scripts a great > >> deal. > > > > Not IME, not with the many complications and different configurations > > we support. E.g., does Gnulib support CMake builds? > > When I made the CMake build system for LLVM/Clang, it was about 1.5 > orders of magnitude less verbose than the autoconf-based system for > feature parity. No one says you'd see anything like that with Emacs. Emacs is not a compiler system. > CMake has the advantage of being procedural (like an ordinary scripting > language) and declarative (like `make'). This makes possible to use a > high level of abstraction that helps a lot when dealing with complexity. Sorry, that's not my experience. In the few cases where I needed to tweak a CMake build (admittedly, nowhere as complex as Clang), I found myself battling the same kind of stuff as with Autoconf: a huge library of macros, variables, and settings. Moreover, quite a few of those are semi-documented in semi-comprehensible way. The moment you step 1/2" outside of the "usual" stuff, you are on your own. > For the Gnulib question, I can't answer, I don't know what it involves. > A quick web search says that Gnulib is tightly tied with autoconf and > messages like this are a bit gloomy: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnulib/2019-08/msg00091.html I know, right? This is just an example of the problems we'd need to deal with. (Does CMake support Emacs Lisp compilation? does it know about *.elc and *.eln files? does it know about emacs.pdmp? does it know about installing programs like Emacs? etc. etc.)