From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stability of core packages (was: Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 12:49:30 +0300 Message-ID: <83r0se6fyt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> <834jpifizy.fsf@gnu.org> <83y1mue1qi.fsf@gnu.org> <83sfd2e01f.fsf@gnu.org> <1a5e5837-513b-84d8-3260-cdbf42b71267@gutov.dev> <83sfcz9rf2.fsf@gnu.org> <09a49ab9-ac72-36a9-3e68-9c633710eba7@gutov.dev> <83r0sh8i1q.fsf@gnu.org> <35638c9d-e13f-fad8-5f95-ea03d65d4aa2@gmail.com> <87a5z3izst.fsf@web.de> <83v8hr7qk9.fsf@gnu.org> <83mt337mck.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15215"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: arne_bab@web.de, joaotavora@gmail.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jim Porter Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 20 11:50:06 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ppQvW-0003jx-1Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 11:50:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppQup-0003EE-52; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:49:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppQuk-0002m4-Ek for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:49:20 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppQuj-0008CP-Oc; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:49:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=JQf8lXGcHeq1NHGUuYeeT9YpM5Q4JAWSB2OO4GGmz1A=; b=fJ1u2WLi6PnMjVj1umCf w1hmC52Dz0AB20xqXnKz+iyGNfdew0/akcKmqDSh9QjKNJCiFGycZPBWv9Gq731LbWYtR7KYjdZ6T id4jdjj8WRimKSswVVQttMDSwygSx6mJcCm/WjthuxOZHr+6FyY8XTY5WedNytDqSuqPWrZpqbApQ 2+br2OJfvKxBLj/Fz6KJH/7Z36A0Irk1lMzsIuA5ysoMSmbBvfG8hm9X3dHm+YZbzfIQ7/4hPKr43 2rpi5OUSigdzxKRg3o0FFu5zvvme1pLW3yEHY6fbj6gS4ye8tqc8rckOVs6DIXoskogXqes2Cj58L reB1PdlP3sk3RQ==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppQuj-0005GP-4s; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:49:17 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Jim Porter on Wed, 19 Apr 2023 12:35:15 -0700) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:305496 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 12:35:15 -0700 > Cc: arne_bab@web.de, joaotavora@gmail.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Jim Porter > > > But if this is the scenario, then there's no problem, AFAIU what you > > are saying. So what exactly would you like to add to this discussion? > > Two main things (once I hear back from João to confirm): > > 1) If there are any package-upgrade actions that *don't* work in the way > I described, we should fix them, using the behavior of > 'package-menu-mark-upgrades' for guidance. As far as I can tell, that's > the behavior everyone wants, but there could be other scenarios where it > does something else. > > 2) More-generally, there's the question of "stability gradations". > Elsewhere, you suggested listing these in the *Packages* buffer with > values like "alpha", "current", "stable", etc. We can already do > something similar to this with additional package archives (e.g. GNU > ELPA vs GNU-devel ELPA). However, package.el doesn't automatically keep > track of which channel you used to install a package, so you have to go > through a fair amount of extra effort to pin your packages to particular > release channels. > > I think (1) is the immediate concern though, and it might be best to > have a resolution for that before going too far into general solutions > like (2). These are serious issues we need to discuss and solve. But they will probably require significant changes in package.el, and so are stuff for Emacs 30, not for the emacs-29 branch.