From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: emacs-29 9b775ddc057 1/2: ; * etc/EGLOT-NEWS: Fix wording of last change. Date: Mon, 08 May 2023 14:24:25 +0300 Message-ID: <83r0rrcbh2.fsf@gnu.org> References: <168335548287.8529.4912240840977468283@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <20230506064443.56C75C22F15@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <59835735-faa0-4096-e491-35ec92964b7a@gutov.dev> <831qjthhm8.fsf@gnu.org> <715cdac6-83f6-6907-2ff8-3b33381f3487@gutov.dev> <83zg6hg29c.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttwpfvcr.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6spfose.fsf@gnu.org> <35df1362-fd92-9424-97d0-df3479414677@gutov.dev> <83edntfm6e.fsf@gnu.org> <667d5cc1-4a3c-5cd4-21c0-adff89cea769@gutov.dev> <834jopfdwz.fsf@gnu.org> <83v8h4elki.fsf@gnu.org> <87h6sofs02.fsf@posteo.net> <83r0rsebcf.fsf@gnu.org> <875y94f4eo.fsf@posteo.net> <834joodmaw.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7mwgd1x.fsf@posteo.net> <83y1m0c4zq.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36445"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: philipk@posteo.net, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 08 13:23:50 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pvyy6-0009Eq-DX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 08 May 2023 13:23:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pvyxj-0003Yy-52; Mon, 08 May 2023 07:23:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pvyxh-0003YZ-99 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 May 2023 07:23:25 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pvyxg-0003Tk-N5; Mon, 08 May 2023 07:23:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=YG7EXIsNdrJXJ1n6PfT+bZd45xmW3M2J1Fdh9epnPEc=; b=rUHDWjsWsdSx eBb2kmSj50EpHk/b08Yl0+UndsxzrGVaEDHLkqogv+G5PJNNmTswTqIrDQEA4ckAkuYxRjSWVL40S AR4REmDUWjVhXUyQpe40zuAn4AHDl6dUv6Ps+r7JjcB2i86ODTxgQtyYNj5Xt+isMbBwzMpkmgU/u x4SDVQcZFnxumHFb24FS5CTkcNeodt9SzoCTwJ6bk9wrAK0+gU2BoMcsmKzZRKL9OeRw7YDv2CaoR MNGdNcIKhF2shmq+rhlRuCOA9er7BlPun337CtyOoyXAk63Y/F3IDqHzJ/EUhh1qUpBFSX8QcLLuP B+Mqv+SIPuw4e19xGAkE3g==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pvyxg-0003O8-6A; Mon, 08 May 2023 07:23:24 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Dmitry Gutov on Sun, 7 May 2023 23:36:24 +0300) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:305975 Archived-At: > Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 23:36:24 +0300 > Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Dmitry Gutov > > On 07/05/2023 22:32, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Packages to install: 23 (xref-1.6.3 verilog-mode-2022.12.18.181110314 use-package-2.4.5 tramp-2.6.0.4 svg-1.1 soap-client-3.2.1 so-long-1.1.2 python-0.28 project-0.9.8 org-9.6.5 ntlm-2.1.0 nadvice-0.4 map-3.3.1 let-alist-1.0.6 jsonrpc-1.0.17 flymake-1.3.4 external-completion-0.1 erc-5.5 eldoc-1.14.0 eglot-1.15 cl-lib-0.7.1 cl-generic-0.3 bind-key-2.4.1). Packages to upgrade: 2 (editorconfig-0.9.1 inspector-0.29). Proceed? (y or n) > > At least nadvice, cl-lib and cl-generic seem to be the odd ones (the > built-in versions are higher, and the ELPA packages are supposed to be > used as shims or backward compatibility wrappers). That looks like a bug. Yes, I think it's an unrelated bug. We had already reports about strange status values, and there's a new bug#63064 today about similar problems. We should try to fix this for Emacs 29, I think. > Regarding potential downsides in general: > > - We simply increase the odds of breakage when a built-in package is > upgraded because it will reach more people, across different Emacs > versions. There is good and bad in that (features will reach them faster > too), but it's something to consider. > > - I very rarely use Tramp or Org. I don't use ERC or bind-key. Or > so-long, python, ntlm, use-package, verilog-mode. Unlike other installed > packages (which I have hand-picked), these packages are here just by the > virtue of being included in Emacs, but flipping the pref will also cause > them to be upgraded (downloaded, take time unarchiving, take up space) > every time there is a new version out. It's nothing dangerous > (probably), but seems unfortunate anyway. AFAIU, the "U" command is not for everyone. There are alternatives which allow selective upgrades, and users who don't want "surprises", or want the upgrade to take as little time and disk space as possible, should use those alternatives instead of "U". I'll try to make that clear in the documentation.