From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: jami-bot and org-jami-bot Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:24:45 +0200 Message-ID: <83r0inj9oi.fsf@gnu.org> References: <875y0i7e43.fsf@hoowl.se> <87y1cyqoso.fsf@posteo.net> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15257"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, philipk@posteo.net, hanno@hoowl.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas , Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 12 08:25:56 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rOBvQ-0003m2-C6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 08:25:56 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rOBup-0002PJ-PO; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 02:25:19 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rOBul-0002Nr-9D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 02:25:15 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rOBuk-0008Em-J6; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 02:25:14 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=A7Tf+gYXBZ3yTHqLlysWk0QE0UNQoLM/TyHoEbuKQlE=; b=EBMPJ151wJZD 0r0Bz9qfFmuOarhQ3WllRE/LYQ9CfC/m3wPW2Ub+Dd2WfSiYXYW9lTFVfIUeeY2YrmOi0ylTQghYc KBz/c45Wa/8l2BMfrmHuctEYpJOqUqnm3kbO2VOFJSwyA+VOp3yuaxGikDLe0VJRix4oSeb6O0t/U 8JJ2XqGG+VYDgFiBcP6vjqsIUGt56HlPXIkK9irGM7L4YloOq0osuuwHXHCAfJMC7PtFUMfZwnWdD 7gvkFHdQdJYd3tLOtcgWN2C6cDgJw8T84ORM2fbc0juhz6w2NZ7iESREyhN0xIrZxugVVjXSwS9Oz VEpaGTRlS+WQgr43+ZsLkQ==; In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:12:20 -0800) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314890 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:12:20 -0800 > Cc: hanno@hoowl.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Richard Stallman writes: > > > It would not be the first time. There are various other features that > > were integrated into Org mode and there is no way to use them from > > Emacs except via Org mode. It is a general design flaw, taking Emacs > > overall in a bad direction. > > Sure, but you might be preaching to the choir here. There is already > broad agreement on this point. The Org maintainers themselves proposed > some features (org-protocol and org-capture) that are good candidates to > separate from Org in this very thread. What about ox-* packages? Could they be converted to more generally-useful export capabilities for Emacs? In general, I feel that the various useful capabilities in Org were generalized only to the level of Org, but not beyond that. Look at ob-* or oc-* or ol-* -- these could be the basis of Emacs features useful in other places, but they are written in Org-specific ways that make using them elsewhere difficult and sometimes even nonsensical. I think patches to bring at least some of that into Emacs will be very welcome, in the same way we nowadays use some originally Gnus-only features in Emacs outside of Gnus (the most prominent example is message.el, but there are others).