From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Should we just start dumping cl-lib? Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 10:22:24 +0300 Message-ID: <83pp0w4dsf.fsf@gnu.org> References: <560E0DA7.6080305@dancol.org> <87twq9ebmh.fsf@udel.edu> <83y4fl5qqi.fsf@gnu.org> <560F1F21.7080503@dancol.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1443857072 817 80.91.229.3 (3 Oct 2015 07:24:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 07:24:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Daniel Colascione Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 03 09:24:17 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiHAx-0008Pw-UM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 09:24:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37286 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiHAs-0004yq-0X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 03:24:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36459) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiHAp-0004yg-Co for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 03:24:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiHAk-0005Da-CD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 03:24:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:38784) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiHAk-0005DM-3f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 03:23:58 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NVM00H00V3LKW00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 10:22:30 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.94.185.246]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NVM00HIZV5IJ520@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 10:22:30 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <560F1F21.7080503@dancol.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.166 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:190773 Archived-At: > From: Daniel Colascione > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:19:45 -0700 > > On 10/02/2015 09:07 AM, John Wiegley wrote: > >>>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > >> Please always accompany such suggestions with rationale. Adding to the core > >> just because "why not?" is IMO not a good methodology. Some people still > >> care about the memory footprint of programs, so we don't want to bloat that > >> unless there are good reasons. Such reasons can only be discussed on a case > >> by case basis. > > > > Although personally I wouldn't mind seeing cl-lib in core, for the benefit of > > Emacs I have to agree with Eli. It's not something we should do just because > > it sounds like a good idea, but because not doing it would cost us something. > > Shaving a few milliseconds from startup is not enough of a gain to be worth > > bloating core. > > What's the cost of increasing the size of the dumped image? We don't > take COW faults on most of the pages, so we can discard them at will. > Because the OS can discard clean pages without writing them to the > pagefile and reconstitute them at will, transferring code from Emacs > private allocations to the dumped Emacs image _decreases_ memory > footprint. That we also shave a few milliseconds off startup is another > benefit. > > If not cl-lib, then what? What is the actual bar? Did you miss my further message where I said we should probably preload cl-lib, because many popular commands in a fresh session load it anyway?