From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH] Support "\n" in icomplete-separator Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 19:44:57 +0200 Message-ID: <83pn4dryau.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83r1p11369.fsf@gnu.org> <837dqr27zs.fsf@gnu.org> <83361f22ah.fsf@gnu.org> <83sg9fzlto.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1ozz22j.fsf@gnu.org> <83d00izloj.fsf@gnu.org> <83361ezix2.fsf@gnu.org> <83y2j6xy4m.fsf@gnu.org> <83v9e9wgyk.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1oxwehu.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40691"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, spacibba@aol.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, andreyk.mad@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 16 18:46:23 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1keia7-000AQk-1a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 18:46:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41910 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1keia6-00058a-0J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 12:46:22 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54562) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1keiYv-0004Re-LQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 12:45:09 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37805) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1keiYu-0007XA-Eq; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 12:45:08 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4024 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1keiYq-00055J-2N; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 12:45:08 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Mon, 16 Nov 2020 10:24:21 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:259244 Archived-At: > Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 10:24:21 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: rudalics@gmx.at, spacibba@aol.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, > andreyk.mad@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > Actually, menus (even GUI toolkit menus) work with the keyboard very > > well. Including in Emacs. It's true that interaction with GUI widgets, > > including the vertical lists, quite naturally is biased towards pointing > > devices, but it is not limited to them. > > > > The important difference, at least for the purposes of this discussion, > > is what menus look like, not how users interact with them. > > What I said was probably not clear enough. > > My argument is the following: as you said, GUI widgets such as menus and > vertical list widgets are "biased towards pointing devices". > > Therefore GUI widgets such as menus and vertical list widgets should not > be used where the primary interaction device is the keyboard. > > Therefore vertical list widgets should not be used to display completion > candidates in the minibuffer, where the primary interaction device is the > keyboard. Since vertical lists and icomplete-type completion features present the same interaction interfaces, both keyboard- and mouse-related, I see no reason to distinguish between them in this context. I didn't say these features should be used. However, people do want to use them, whether we agree or not. When they do use such features, I maintain that the visual appearance should be pretty and professional, like what we see in GUI apps out there which use the vertical list widgets. I understand that you disagree, and that is fine. I just don't see why we should continue arguing long after we've established that there's a fundamental disagreement between us.